Ice and RSD
 

:confused: I have a question about the use of ice in pt and rsd. I just came back from my umpinth trip from pt, I have a new therapist..I have pool pt and land...this was land pt, and she insisted on putting ice on my rsd ankle...I told her that you should not put ice on it, but she said that I have to desensitise my ankle to all things...so I submitted and on went the ice, it did not feel too good, but didnt kill me..lol...she said I must but confusing it raynaulds syndrome.:confused: I know what I have read and I am not confusing it...Any thoughts anyone???? Im rambling again and spelling badly...sorry
Jeannine:)

Hi Jeannine,

I always use ice. I am a Chiropractic care patient and I bought two large ice packs from him. I have been dealing with full body CRPS for 9 years. Ice helps me.

Take care,
Sherrie

Ice is generally a no go with RSD. If you have a PT that doesn't know that, IMHO, you need a new PT.

(Sherrie is an exception, she's had CRPS for 9 years and knows what works for her).

I think the liberal use of ice after my second shoulder surgery, combined with real aggressive PT who ignored my claims of pain, was the likely cause of my RSD.

Sandy

Thanks, thats what I thought...guess I will ask pm dr. on Wed to double check...
Jeannine:)

Using ice when you have "cold" rsd will only make things worse and the pain too. "Cold" rsd is only referring to the temp of the skin. In this kind of rsd the blood vessels are already constricted comprimising blood flow. The constriction is the reason our skin is cold and why it turns our skin different colors, ie purple, blue, pink.

When you put ice on "cold" rsd, it constricts the blood vessels even more which also cuts off even more circulation leading to higher pain, a worsening of rsd in that area and possible spread. This is the reason ice is a big NO for rsd. It does not help and ice has no place in desensitization. To desensitize skin, you start with very soft things and slowly, very slowly work toward using rougher feeling things.

When something is already cold, you don't add cold to it, you add HEAT!

With "hot" rsd, the skin being red and feeling warm or hot, these people usually use ice and it feels good. Ice for the heat. With "hot" rsd, using heat makes their pain go up and things worse for them. It's just that simple, Ice = Heat, Heat = Ice. :-D

Hugs,

Karen

i have rsd for 11yrs and cant tolerate ice period.. but i have both cold and hot rsd.. my arms will generally be the warm and hips down cold.. but i have always been told never ice period ..

carrie

Like Carrie,
 

I have both hot and cold RSD and I use ice on the areas that I know need the ice instead of the heat. Heat does make some areas worse for me. I use heating pads for other areas. I think it just depends on what each of us learn what we can stand.

Ada

That would be a huge no for me. I would be in a flare up for a long time. I know we are all different but what I do feel when a patient says no they should be listened to. The pt or who ever can explain why they feel that way but you should not feel pushed. I know it is hard when wanting relief but you only know your body. There are so many different ways to desensitize and to me ice is not the one. There are different textures and I did a sand therapy. I hope you feel better and get more direction

yes no means no period.. and i used other things for deseniting period..

My husband uses ice on his rsd knee.

We may all have RSD but that does not mean we all use the same treatments. I love my ice, hate heat. What may be a no-no for the majority of us does not mean it is a no-no for all of us.

I agree!!!! Isn't that what I just said (I think)????

I myself cannot use ice at all on any part of me that has RSD. Did that once and ended up with frost bite on my knee in just a few minutes. With that said, though everyone is different. But generally speaking I have not heard many RSD patients that use ice on their affected limbs.

Thats exactly what you said, and what I missed. Not getting nearly enough sleep, definitely bleary eyed.

I'll say one thing about ice packs.
I never use them directly against my skin, (I use a towel),
But,
For swelling, like my feets, it works well.
Ice packs are commonly used to fight swelling.

And, another Important point,
Headaches.
With Migraine pain, it's imperative to get some cold packs around the head!

Ice is not the demon some are making it out to be.

It merely needs to be used judiciously.
IMHO.

pete
Asb

Before I was diagnosed with RSD, my PT's used to put ice on my leg and it aggrivated things a LOT! I remember dreading going to PT as I knew they were going to ice my leg and I would be in tears for a few hours afterwards. The ice made my leg go blue and purple also and the spasms got a lot worse after icing.

It was only when I was diagnosed with RSD that my Pain Management Doctor told us you should never ice an RSD limb and that the ice probably made things worse and contributed to the problems I now have as it can cause nerve damage.

I have read a few articles on the internet stating that icing an RSD limb is probably one of the worst things you can do as it will probably make things worse. I really wish we knew that at the time as I would have never agreed to the icing but my PT's told me it would help with the swelling - boy were they wrong!

I would definitely speak to your PT's and ask them exactly why they are icing your RSD limb and whether they know they shouldn't do that, especially seeing as it's making you worse. It doesn't sound like they are very trained in dealing with RSD if they think icing is a good thing to do!!

If you aren't happy with your PT's, please try and find another one! It is REALLY important that you find a PT that is trained in dealing with RSD and knows what they are talking about otherwise it will only make things worse!!

I guess it's different for everyone but seeing as though the ice is making you feel worse, I wouldn't use it at all and would speak to your PTs. Theres quite a few articles on the internet about the use of ice in RSD that might be worth taking to your next PT appt.

I hope you can get things sorted soon and feel better! Please keep us posted and know you are in my thoughts!

Ice vs Heat ??
 

These electric 'hydro therm" Or some other term electric hot packs are wonderful!
They're (obviously) electric, with a forced typed switch, (You must hold it "ON") let go, and it shuts off, they can get so hot, they'll burn. They're packed with something like "sand" which holds the heat. And wrapped in a wool outer sheath. (The wool, brings moisture to the heat, thus making it "Moist Heat".) True! They work!
They're made by the same company as most Chiropractors use. (Dam Tbi)
Get the name (sorry, I just cannot think of it @ the moment)
They're wonderful devices
I had one to wrap my neck.
One to cover my back.
Wifey took care of that. Not mine any longer....
But, they're GREAT.
And, if you get headaches,
the ones you keep in the freezer, and stay malleable are wonderful too!
No heat on a Migraine! Ice cold in a towel!
If I could only remember the name!
grrrRRRR!

pete
very bad!

Pete,
Did anyone ever tell ya how Stoopid ya'are?
Well, you're stoopid!
Can't remember a simple name......
like that.

GrrrrRRRR!

Good night Gracie!

Good night All!

xo

When I get mirgaines I have used a cool wash cloth but not on my rsd area. I feel baths are the best for that for any change in temp. We are all different that is for sure. I also think there is a difference when one does something like this to themselves vs when someone does it to them. Like I can put a light finger on my area but if a doc or someone else it really flares me up cause I know the time to do it,the amount of pressure and more where if that makes sense.

Thank you all so much for your wonderful input....Right now I am having problems with foot , toes and fingers feeling like they are full of ice, I use a heating pad to try to warm things up. I never use ice...and when I go to PT on Monday I will not let anyone put ice on me...think Ill spend time in the therapy pool today...luckly I can go anytime I want...went to see pm dr on Wed. He going to start another series of sympathetic nerve blocks as my RSD has spread from my foot and ankle to my whole left side including my face:(...and my place of work wants me back asap...so pm dr is kinda being pressed into putting me back with restrictions on sitting only...that ought to be fun considering I work for a warehouse, membership club, owned by a large retailer...cant mention names, but you get the picture, stupid workers comp...so I got to go back in 2 weeks to God knows what position...oh well, hopefully the nerve blocks help again. anyway, thank again all for your opions, I will consider them all...
Jeannine

Whoah.. not to scare ya'll but a heads up on ice..
 

Ice caused my RSD to start spreading origionaly, that and too vigorus hands on PT massage of my right calf muscle. Ice damages the small nerve fibers, I have seen thermography pictures of patients with hot RSD who used ice to try relieve their pain and it was nasty! It may feel good but don't do it, the damage to your nerve fibers are irreparable and eventualy (only a few years) even your skin will break down (one big ulcer) I will look for the pictures again this is serious stuff! Please use a wet towel or sheet instead.. just try it anyway ok please?
If that dosn't work as well then do what you will anyway and I will hunt those photos, thanks.

:grouphug:
Sincerly
Sandra

I need to try the pool again too. Anyhow I hope you feel better and I hope the next PT and blocks go better. I know one feels trapped when wanting to listen to a PT or doc but at the same time some are just not on the same page and can often do more harm then good. So you have to really think and weigh the options. I can still remember at Cleveland getting yelled at by the PT person and she told me since I would not do I would never get better. Well then we had a team meating and all the doctors felt that I was already pushing too hard and I was not at the point to do that. So I was so thankful I did not cave to her. I think there is balance between pushing and going too far. Many thought