lithium oratate
 

Does anyone have experience with useing this form of lithium?

no but I was looking for it the other day at our local drug emporium ...I read about it being available at health food stores. Call your pharmacies and see if they carry it over the counter. YOu can probably google it and find whole salers of the supplement...have you tried that?
and welcome to the forums!
:Wave-Hello:
beth

lithium orotate
 

I found it online, you have to check,,differences in price and shipping charges. I was told by my Dr to look for 4-6. mg of lithium and that it would not hurt my kindneys as you can take much less because it has a loose chemical bond to hte orotate, unlike the citrate or carbonate. my concern is weight gain, I will stop any me that starts that... I have found mixed lithium results.

I take lamictal for a mood stabilizer and have had no weight gain as it is a weight neutral med and very good for bp2 folks....it has antidepressant qualities.
ask your pdoc about this.
jsut a suggestion
beth

Lamictal does not have anti-manic properties however
 

Lamictal (lamotrigine) has been shown to be effective, in clinical trials, in two ways:

1. seems to delay time of onset between episodes
2. has antidepressant qualities, as Bizi says.

It is often used in conjunction with an AD or for bipolars who cannot take an AD. BUT:

Clinical trials have shown Lamictal is not superior to placebo for mania.

As such, it is not an alternative to stabilizers with anti-manic effects such as indeed lithium, but also divalproex, carbamazepine, oxcarbazepine... and the new generation neuroleptics.

So why do we call it a stabilizer at all, and not an anti-depressant? Well... partly history, partly chemistry. Neither term is really accurate.

Originally, Lamictal was thought to have both anti-manic and anti-depressant action, so historically it was termed a stabilizer, even thought used only off label at the time. Also, Lamictal is an anti-epileptic drug (AED); this class of drugs when used to treat bipolar generally serve as "mood-stabilizers," and are called thus. Lastly, most antidepressant (AD) drug classes have very different types of action than AEDs so lumping Lamictal under the AD umbrella would be more misleading than calling it a stabilizer, especially as pretty much all ADs carry a risk of manic reaction in bipolars, especially if the patient is not covered by an anti-manic agent.

Until Lamictal came along, saying "mood-stabilizer" was almost synonymous with "anti-manic." Now, not so but the name has stuck so we do sometimes say mood-stabilizer when we really intend something which will prevent/treat mania.

once one is stable, anti-manics are sometimes suspended (varying philosophies or whether a bipolar patient should or should not take them all the time). if the main problem is depression, Lamictal can be maintained to help with that.

Bizi, just a note... I do believe Geodon is serving as your anti-manic mood stabilizer, not Lamictal. :o

~ waves ~

standardization of nutritional supplements?
 

Dogodlvr,

i am relieved to know you do have doc's indications with regard to dosages. do be cautious however, especially at first, and buy a good brand...

I am not sure if this has now changed, but last i knew the FDA did not require/enforce standardization of content for supplements which means each pill and certainly each "lot" could contain slightly varying amounts of lithium orotate to what is declared on the label. :eek:

~ waves ~

Dear Waves, I think we are right about the geodon helping me the most to stabilize me. lamictal has proven to have antidepresant results thus the suppression of rebound depression following a manic attack. and this is why I take it. My pdoc wanted to increase the dose when I was having some suicidal thoughts but I didn't do this because I was so unstable and didnot want to push me into more of a mixed mood. So I have stayed at the 200mg dose.. I have not been sleeping well this past few days, I think it is my hormones acting up.It is hard knowing what to do when I am perimenopausal. Increasing my klonipin helps with the insomnia but I hate thinking that I am building up a torlerence. But I have to sleep that is what got me into trouble last summer.
My moods have stabilized thanks be to geodon.
I suggested the lamictal because she is suffering mostly with depression and lithium doesn't really address the depression if I remember correctly.
beth

That's right, Beth
 

Well... lithium has a mixed bag of studies at its back.

In general it is more of an antimanic. it tends to flatten mood altogether if too much is taken... however it has been shown in some studies to decrease the risk of suicide... even though it is not particularly successful for mixed moods (statistically) compared to divalproex.

i have not seen data of it specifically being used for an antidepressant effect however, and it is definitely used along with ADs as necessary.

Certainly Lamictal would be appropriate for that. However if one is bipolar and not stable, it is important to realize that Lamictal alone will not protect against mania, and since it is called a "mood stabilizer" in the literature even ... it is easy for one to think it covers both bases, when that is not the case.

---------------

Bizi, I'm not sure i can offer any advice about sleep. do you take supplements? Magnesium - usually taken with calcium and vitamin D for proper balance assimilation can help with sleep. a simple way to get it is by having a glass of hot or warm (but not boiled!) milk before bed.

another thing, if you can, is to keep a check on your alcohol intake especially in the evening. whereas alcohol does make one sleepy, it gives rise to poor quality sleep, and often also reduces the amount of sleep one is able to get. hormonal changes can also affect the way alcohol affects you, btw.

i do not wish to advise one way or the other on hormonal therapy to help with perimenopausal symptoms, since such therapy could possibly interfere with your meds. but some women do find it helpful during perimenopause.

you might want to speak to both your gyn (first) and your pdoc (once you know what you could be given) about this avenue. This is a tricky juncture for bipolars. i am not there yet but not far and i don't look forward to it. :( :hug::hug::hug:

~ waves ~

PLEASE READ, before using orotate form of lithium
 

dear dogodlvr, please read this article - it is from the bipolar beat blogs here at PsychCentral... talks about the studies - and lack of studies, the claims/advantages/risks of lithium orotate:

Bipolar Disorder Medication Spotlight: Lithium Orotate | Bipolar Beat

i also found lithium orotate on wikipedia which basically says the same thing and cites the studies:

Lithium orotate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

take care...

and please check in!!!

~ waves ~

Hi, Dogodlvr.

Did your psychiatrist really suggest this????
It sounds strange to me and I am confused by the question.

I wouldn't take it.
There is no way to know what is in any given pill.
The stuff you buy via prescription has pretty close to what it is supposed to have.

Also, does one still take blood tests while on this?

Do you have good medical insurance?
If not, there are some mood stabilzers that are generic and cheap.

List of mood stabilzers:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depres...tabilizers.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig/BP_pharm.html



M.

Hi,
I had very mixed results. Actually, lithium major stunk and I was depressed for 4 years while on it and an anti-depressant.
In comparison to those 4 years, my life has been good since I stopped taking it and found other things.
M.

Mari
 

Lithium has been found not to be very sucessful in treating mixed states, so i'm not surprised by your experience.

A few ppl with mixed states respond to it but most do not. For those who respond, it apparently is superior to divalproex, but statistically it is more useful to treat pure mania.

~ waves ~

Thanks, I had read these before I ordered it. My Psyc doc said that because it is bound to orotate and more easily absorbed you can take less and not have the kidney damage. It is not controled by the fda...he told me to look for some between 4-6 units, after reading reviews I chose one by advanced research with Dr Napiers name on it.It has 4.9, so if it does vary a bit I am still in the ok range. I do believe it is making me sleepy though. I have ok Insurance, my drug of choice from internet searching is lanotrigine. @nd choices zydis or oxcabazepine....I will not take one that has weight gain as a side effect. I had gastric bypass surgery 3 years ago and I will not go there again.
Thank everyone for the input, My dr did say we may have to add an antidepressant when I see him on the 30th. My biggest concern right now.....being sleepy, I want to try to go back to work next Monday.

Hi,
The lithium likely will only make you sleepy the first few times you take it -- that's what I read recently. If that is the case, the sleepiness should be gone soon.

I wish you luck in returning to work.
M.

You know, when he told me about the lithium orotate, I thought, "He dosn't believe me" I came home and researched it half expecting it to be some sort of scam/placebo thing like male enhancement! I have been told my whole life just to get a grip on my attitude, that I was just moody and needed to controle it....I am not thrilled by the diagnosis, but am grateful to finnally know what is going on and to be addressing it. The first psuc doc I saw said ADD and put me on focalin, a stimulant....2 weeks of mania later I got a 2nd opinion.....so being sleepy could be from stopping the focalin and then I added the lithium...who knows, I am glad I found this site! I laughed today...it was nice.

Hi,
I'm so happy that you have a pdoc who is helping you.

Some folks with bipolar do in fact ALSO have ADD / ADHD. But the pdoc is supposed to treat the bipolar first before adding something for the ADHD.

Laughing is good. :)

M.

thank you... I woke up this am feeling pretty good. The first pdoc I saw who insisted I was ADD would not address the depression, and the focalin he had me on , he just kept increasing, my last script the pharmacy could not fill because it was above the recommended daily dose. If I can google and find outbipolar has many of the same symtoms he should have known it .....I kept telling him I was overwhelmed with emptness and he would say...you are clearly ADD...Anyway, the mania caused by the focalin was intense, talking, mind racing, clenching my teeth so tight I was gatting headaches, at the same time I was so sad and empty I did not want to move...very unpleasant.... at least the new doc is listening to me, he gave me options of treatment and asked where I was comfortable starting. thank you for the support here.

thank you for checking in.
It sounds lkike you have a good pdoc now...very happy to read this.Drug induced hypomania is not fun and can turn into full blown mania if not caught in a timely manner.
antidepressants can do this too.
The only antidepressant I can take is welbutrin at half a dose and I did not see it as helping. the lamictal acts as an antidepressant for me now.
geodon keeps the mania at bay.
beth