The faces of suicide
 

Our local paper is filled with the deaths of an eye doctor, who shot his wife and then killed himself. They were indicted last week by a federal grand jury on suspicion of health care fraud, wire fraud and criminal conspiracy.

We are cautioned, by the experts, that suicide is not necessarily an admission of guilt.

"We don't know and you don't know and your readers don't know whether (the deaths) occurred because they were guilty and in effect didn't want to face the music, or because of what already is apparent, which is a tremendous loss of face and implication of guilt" says Lanny Berman, of American Association of Suicidology.

No statistical evidence has been assembled on people who commit suicide when accused of a crime, Berman said, but there have been cases of people who cannot tolerate losing a societal status.

It has everything to do with the psychological sense that they will no longer be viewed by others as having the respect and importance and value that they presumed they had prior to this public disclosure of potential wrongdoing."

And of course the paper is full of numbers to call for help in an emergency. Suicide always has such a high priority when it's sensationalized. ~sigh

I think the smartest thing I read was by a clinical social worker, Ruth Yarger, who said that what's most important is that people at risk understand that other choices exist. "When someone commits suicide, those left behind are often left looking for rationale they might not find. One of the reasons we don't understand is because we still think of options, but that person who is committing suicide does not see those options."

http://www.wsbt.com/

Oh my goodness -- that "can't stand the loss of societal status" sounds like it might be what happened here in Utah last week.

A doctor in a small town was accused (along with a dozen others) of taking pottery and artifacts from Indian ruins. Such a sad loss. If only he could have seen the "options." :(

It surely sounds like it Twink and it is so sad.

We are still reeling from a very successful home builder taking his life 9 months ago when the bottom fell out of the market...couldn't face the embarassment of bankruptsy so he put a gas grill in his car and took his life. Obviously his reputation was more important than the young children and wife he left behind. Guess he couldn't see any "options" either. ~sigh

Options, and hope!! I don't know why they seem to flit away for some of us. I don't know why we box ourselves in. And it seems selfish, but, it's not. It gets confusing. Reaching out is the hardest, and most important part of it all, I think. If only people can see even that much as an option. That is that when they can't see an option, maybe someone else can help them to see those options, and give them hope. :grouphug:

Guilt by association can drive many over the edge, doing the crime or not:. is circumstantial...being linked to wrong doing is the killer..for so many..

David

When I read your post David, I had this sudden realization about why people don't want to tell others when they feel suicidal. Your 'guilt by association' thought just hit me, as to why talking about suicide is sooooo hard for people who want to commit it.

This has probably been said here before, but, I had my AHA moment and thought I would share it. It helps to make it solid for me. We don't even want to say when we are feeling suicidal because it makes us feel guilty, afterall, it is wrong. It is illegal. It does go against everything life is about. Why would someone want to talk about something like that to others?? And, yet, it is sooooo very vital for the person who is in that space.

Gosh, if we could just remove that stigma!!!!!! :mad: If we could just get people to be more compassionate for those who suffer with those thoughts...hummmmm, just to remove that guilt that the thoughts are even there, and the desire to act upon them. And that, too, is some of the difference. There are those who will think about it but don't have the emotion in it to act on it. And then there are those of us who can get downright passionate about it, and will act on it.

People who don't have the emotion and passion in it, all they do is think about it, just don't get the ones who will carry it out. Okay, just thinking out loud here, because I know I can....:D

http://www.geotimes.ge/index.php?newsid=17060

:(

since the above link no longer works, lets try this...

http://www.topix.net/science/psychol...to-think-about

I'm waiting for a phone call from the mother of a 15 yr. old boy who killed himself. The family came home and found him hanging..he had been bullied at school. The boy's father is worried sick about his wife....feels that since it's been a year, she should be showing improvement. A mutual friend asked me to call him and when I did, he said, "I do not want to talk to you...I want my wife to talk to you".....and his voice quivered so it brought tears to my eyes. He said "I've captured your # and will give it to her."

Gee, he sounded like he was coping so well...:( I pray she calls me..still without a support group here.

I hope she calls you as well.
Difficult for you too though I'm sure, Alffe.
Thinking of you. :hug:



[p.s. both links work fine for me]

Alffe, I so deeply admire your strength, courage, compassion and devotion!:hug:

I hope the conversation with the grieving mother goes well-- is healing.:Heart:

(And yes, both links above also work for me.):winky:

Thanks for the kind words DejaVu...I hope she calls me...it will be difficult to call a complete stranger. And I hate the phone..I'm much better in person. ROFL :p

I wonder why that link still won't work for me..:confused:

Alffe, talking on the phone about such an intimate topic could be awkward, for sure. Yet... as I write this... I am recalling all of the hours I had worked a suicide hotline in a big city (years ago)...by telephone! Maybe some find the telephone easier? We'd had 4 lines, going 24/7 and all lines were almost always lit up! Most calls were from people presently feeling suicidal... not so much from grieving family members.
Some things went well...some did not.:eek: :(

Yes, I now am considering the difference between the urgent caller, contemplating... and a grieving family member... a year later?

As you know, sometimes the grieving family member becomes another urgent caller, also contemplating... at a later date.

:Heart:((((More power to you, Alffe! You are an angel!))):Heart:

(((Alffe))) Thinking about you this morning, and praying for the family, you, and some strength! Gosh, I wish you had that support group. :hug:

:hug:((((Alffe))):hug:
Thinking of you!:winky:

No angel here, just ask Barbo! :wink: We just got back from a walk in the park with Cooper. Nothing on the answering machine...~sigh

DejaVu, do you get trainning to work on a hot line? How do you know the right things to say? I've never called one, nor worked on one but am interested....talk to me. *grin

And I think that is why this husband is so concerned about his wife...:(

Hi Alffe!

Please forgive my delay in responding.:o

I am increasingly ill with excruciating neuropathy and other pain...along with flu. (I've recently been struggling with a serious flu. My DH was out of work with it for 9 days, extremely ill... and he is rarely ill. I often experience severe illness exacerbation/crippling pain when also trying to deal with viral infections.)

I am very happy to discuss the suicide hotline topic with you, just as soon as I recover a bit. I've had some questions for you, too, in the back of my mind. Maybe we can get together on our mutual questions soon? I am looking forward to it!:hug:

Oh Dejuva, I am so sorry you are ill with the flu...sounds awful! And to have excruciating neuropathy in addition makes for a miserable time. Please rest and when you are feeling better (soon I hope) we will continue to learn from one another. :hug:

It was wonderful to wake up to email from Nikki who remains a constant on our minds and in our hearts. We are here for you Nikki, when you are ready. :grouphug:

(((DejaVu))))


Alfee, did the mother call you? (((hugs)))

No, I haven't heard from her Addy. I hope she'll call me but like I said..that would be a very hard call to make to a total stranger. There's nothing I can do but wait and see. ~sigh

:hug: ((alffe)) :hug:

Many want escape, not suicide
 

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I do realize that there are those who truly wish for death, seeing no other way out. As a former psych social wkr, however, my observation is that many of those who say they want to die, actually just want to be far away from their situation. This is not to say that such statements should not be taken with every precaution and available course of appropriate action. As a mental health patient dx'd with depression, I have reached a point where I see almost no other options. However, I cannot truly say that I want to die, because I have no idea what dying is like. I have no indication that this would be a release of any sort. Thanks for your forum. This is the first interest I have had in anything for more than a year. billie