Ice and RSD
 

I have heard not to use ice in the treatment of RSD and TO use it (as an aid in desensitization)... what are your thoughts on this? Was ice helpful or not in your RSD treatment? Do you know of any actual studies done on this topic? TIA!

I don't know of any studies... but I can tell you that my physical therapist used ice on me and I thought I was on fire... I've never felt pain like that. Normally ice will hurt until the are goes cold numb... mine never did go numb...pain just kept going up.

When I told my doctor that's when I was diagnosed with RSD... well this and the other symptoms combined.

After the RSD diagnosis my PT put in the file to never use ice and through trial & error we found out I can't tolerate temperatures below 60 or over 80 without it causing a major flare.

Hi Vanessa,
Welcome!

Just personal experience, but ice is intolerable for me. My RSD started in the cast (but I didn't realize that till later) after a colles fracture with complications. The day after the cast came off I was sent to PT. Up till then, it had been extremely painful, with pain the first and foremost symptom.

After the PT, they iced my arm in polar thermafrost, it seemed, for 20 mins. It was the worst agony of my life, bar nerve tooth pain, but they wouldn't remove it, sat and watched me right the way through as I suffered what seemed like having my arm plunged into boiling water and kept there.

When the ice was removed the arm and hand looked like it had been severely burned, was dayglo bright red, suffused in nerve pain but fizzed and hummed like a sound and that was it, RSD proper. It was like the ice was the gelatine that set the RSD jello.

So, while I believe desensitization is necessary for many reasons, and I give myself a "refresher course" every so often, I do it without the aid(!!) of ice - there is no situation in life that would induce me to go near ice, under any circumstances. I know "in my bones" that icing it would bring the RSD back up to the 10 in terms of pain, and get the condition roaring back full blast.

My arm and hand, especially, is very sensitive to cold, I've cut the arms off old sweaters and put those on the arm and wear double gloves, very loose-style, in the cold. So for me ice is completely out of the question.

We're all different, though. As far as the PT went, I found contrast cool and warm water immersion to be the most helpful. Hope this helps...
all the best :)

hope this helps
 

Thanks. :) That is where I read that ice should NOT be used in treating RSD. I really like Dr Hooshmand's articles, theories and all. He seems very knowledgable in dealing with RSD.
I was wondering if there was any site with a Dr who said TO use ice and who gives an explanation on why and how it would help. :confused:

I know that many people cannot tolerate ice with RSD. But for me, I LOVE the ice. It is very soothing with the burning/ aching pain I have. However, when I found out that ice has a negative effect on RSD patients I have stopped using the ice and have been trying to research about it.


What about cold cold water (nothing below 55 degrees)? Does anyone know if that would have a negative effect? For me, cold soothes and feels so good, but heat I cannot tolerate.
My Dr mentioned contrast baths. Has that helped anyone?

Thanks for the help!

Thanks for the welcome! Cute doggy, Artist! :)

I have always used the ice after PT, as well.

My PT is great and very willing to listen to what I think about the ice. As I think about it, maybe the ice HAS had a negative effect, but temporarily felt good. As I have read, ice is a short term anesthetic in some people.

It has been said that 87% of people with RSD are not able to tolerate the cold, and 13% are not able to tolerate the heat.

I believe Dr Hooshmand also advises against contrast baths.

Hi,

Yes, in the early stages of PT after the arm break, they were the main thing that relaxed everything well enough to stand the exercises. But I had to modify them, so I used cold water, interchanged with moderately hot water.

Oh yes, the other thing that really helped was paraffin wax..but I don't have a "home" wax heater thingy, so I only had those at the PT place. Wish I did have one, specially for the cold weather, (yes, it's gone cold in Hong Kong..) they are *wonderful*!
all the best :)

I, too, have had similar experiences to artist and the rest.

I had vicious rsd in an ankle/leg break. Pt very soon involved hot baths and a bucket of ice and water. My foot/leg looked horribly traumatized after and the pain escalated. I bailed out of there the day a fireman with two broken arms in for treatment raced across the room to yank me out of the tub as he saw that the temp had crept up to a malfunctioning high. He said that he had noticed that my foot/leg was getting worse over the course of a few days treatment.

Interestingly, as the years passed and I entered what i called a hot burning phase i found myself searching for cold tiled floors on which to stand for a few minutes. I also did moderate running of cool water then warm on my hands, always for only a round a min each time. I tried anything to soothe the pain. Moderate temps did seem to help.

I have on occasion used an ice pack for 5 min on a non rsd area of my body. That seemed to have no ill effects. But again, I have few non hurting areas so i am wary of it and rarely have done it.

I too find my tolerance is from 19 c to 25 c in temps .. too far below and pain shoots up, too far above 25 and the same happens.

Would that I could live in a temperate climate.

All the best everyone,
Ina

i hate the ice.......
 

Ice=ouch!!!!
 

I Was Ising Ice And The Pain Was Intense..dr Informed Me That Ice Or Cold Could Furthur Any Nerve Damage..so Now No Ice And No Heat...heat Makes The Blood Flow But I Don't Have The Strength In My Arm To Pump The Blood Back Up So My Hand And Arm Swell And Pain Worsens...damned If I Do Damned If I Don't .....still I Keep Trying???? Moonstar

Hmm... I thought it was relief too, but then I read that it could give/ further nerve damage.



Right- that's what I have learned- ice will further nerve damage. :Sigh:


Heat? Well, that hurts, but I am now trying that at PT. We'll see how it goes. I think the weight of the heat pack on my shoulders is harder than the heat itself sometimes.


Moonstar, is your RSD is your arm? My RSD is in my arms and shoulders. I have a "textbook" case (as my Dr told me)... I have nearly every symptom- color change, sweating, sensitivity to touch, and the severe shooting burning pain...

Hi Vanessa...yes My Rsd Is In My Left Arm And Hand..my Right Side Is Getting Worse Due To Over-use. Not Sure If This Is Also What Set Off My Fibromyalgia From My Neck All Down The Whole Left Side Of My Back And Leg Also...and Now Vertigo...they Are Keeping Me Out Of Work For A Month Now....this Will Be Great For My Depression...but What Else Can I Do?? Pt Didn't Help Much.. I Learned The Exercises And Stretch My Body All The Time But Can't Afford To Go To Pt,drs Visits And Therapy Plus All The Medication..it Is Costing Me More Than My Mortgage Payment Of 15,000 A Month...ouch On All Points...

Never once went near ice. It never entered my head to try ice. Then I learn to not go near it from here & research. But I have used cool wash cloths when the bright redglow was & still is at times on. It did help but I did have to cool the wash cloth down constantly cause my feet were so hot the wash cloth got HOT real quick. Especially in the summer when it is hot my feet go bright redglow colors & burns. Lately I have been having the feeling of freezer burn. Or else my feet are warm to hot, but feel as if they are really really cold. SUCKS! But also now with winter on, if the do get cold they are difficult to warm up too. Can't win for loose this time of year.

DebbyV

Hi Moonstar - I'd love to be able to read you, but this All Cap Thing is nearly impossible, makes the words jump, jump, jumpedy jump....if it's a problem, just small would be good...please?

Debby - freezerburn, yes, how well described, that's exactly what I get on the back of my hand and under my wrist to half way up my arm. So absolutely exactly.

all the best.

sorry artist
 

i don't re-read what i write but now that you pointed it out..ouch!!!! hurts my eyes too.....thanks for letting me know.....

thanks, moon star, all is revealed.. :D
atb!

I know exactly what you mean by that freezer burn feeling. I always told people that I felt frostbitten or something because internally I feel SO hot, but yet on the outside I am COLD. :eek:

Just wanted to thank everyone for the responses. Sorry I didn't sooner... this past week has been really bad pain wise and I just couldn't. :(

Currently I have stopped using the ice and I am just using minimal (20 mins. per day) heat and cool water at PT.

spreading caused by ice?
 

Do you think ice can cause RSD/ CRPS to SPREAD???:confused:

ice burns
 

Hi Vanessa... I don't know if RSD can spread from ice, but I do know that before they knew I had RSD in 2000 they used ice on my knee and it felt like fire on my leg.. but that was just me :( I think most of everyone on this forum gets that same reaction but there are people that like ice and not heat soo.. RSD is odd.. Wish I could answer your question!!!:Sigh:

Dr. Hooshmand's book says that ice is an istigator, aggravator, and perputrator of RSD because of its' vasconstrictive effect.

Most everyone on here has talked about the ice issue. I never have used it on me, I use heat all of the time.

Ada

Would like to add...
 

Hey all - I'm new here - Will post a little about myself when I find the right area to do that... :)

Hubby was first diagnosed with RSD in 1995 - At that time little was out there and available for research though I combed through anything and everything I could find.

They did try for a VERY short time ice therapy on my husband - It nearly sent him through the roof and didnt work at all.

One of the best treatments he received was hot tub / spa therapy - THAT worked wonders!! Not a miracle cure by no means but left him from a few hours to a few days with some relief.

I would say NO to ice therapy - This is also known as: cryotherapy - Not only because of personal experience but According to Dr Hooshmand ice can cause (permenant) nerve ending damage. (the nerves that are just below skin level) The thought of MORE damage is enough to keep us away from trying it again.

Have you heard of Dr Hooshmand? There are incredible articles, pictures of what ice can do to you, medication information, therapies etc on his site. He has researched RSD for years. Just in case you dont have it - or someone else needs it - I've added the link at the bottom of this post.

HubbyWithRSD

http://www.rsdrx.com/

My doctor says NO ICE at all . It makes it worse and can cause more pain.

First- welcome! :) This message board is extremely helpful! :) I'm sure you'll like it here... it is the best one I have found!

I have heard of Dr. Hooshmand. I have enjoyed reading his research, and he is one of the first of many people who I have heard say "no ice". I understand his reasoning "why" and I agree.

In different cases different things will help... I won't use ice because of what I have learned, and I'd rather be on the safe side with it. I know someone who used ice for treatment and he no longer has RSD! Go figure.

Yes!

Dr Hooshmand says it does...
See:
RSD PUZZLE #102
Ice Versus Heat
http://www.rsdrx.com/rsdpuz4.0/puz_102.htm

Freezer burn! That's good!
 

Before I ever heard about RSD I used word pic's to try to explain to doctors what I was feeling as my pain got worse & worse after corisone injections into my shoulder, etc.

I said it felt like 3 cats had all slid down my arm from shoulder to hand, scratching with all their claws as they went. And, along with the aching in my RT shoulder from the torn rotator cuff, and the feeling like I'd just banged by "funny bone" on my elbow, it also felt like a soldier wearing his boots had just kicked me in the arm pit, causing me to ache under my arm & into my chest.

When told about RSD I looked it up & one of the first things I read was that people with RSD describe their pain with such "vivid" word pictures! Wow!

Guess we can all say we've "been there". ;)

DeniseG

Agree no ice/////recommend Dr. Hooshmand's Puzzles
 

Yes =-I too agree no ice. Having been a patient of Dr. Hooshmand's I know he is adamant against using it. He did use heat treatments. Also, used photon therapy.
I would highly recommend reading his puzzles. He was a brilliant researcher and so knowledgeable about RSD. I met so many people in his office from all over the world who returned for repeated treatments. So sad that he is now retired from his practice. He had such energy and passion for treating RSD. He would sit and listen to you for an hour and tell you to just keep talking so you don't forget to tell him everything.
I am glad we still have his puzzles and his books and research.

Best wishes
Sydney

NO Ice Ice Baby
 

Most RSD'ers can't tolerate ice! I hate it!!! It's like putting gasoline on your arms, strapping on a flame retardant suit and lighting yourself on fire from the inside. NOT pleasant. Cold water does that same, has anyone ever noticed there are public place that have no hot water!!! That is just cruel! LOL.