butterbur/allergies/headaches/natto
 

nattokinase? fibroboost? opinions anyone?

I was thinking of taking one of these supplements.

I don't have any experience with either of those supplements.
What are you trying to accomplish? Do you have Fibro?

edit to add... I will say that if you have vascular headache, polyphenols might make it worse. Red wine is one trigger for some migraine patients, for example. That Fibroboost does not say where their polyphenols come from. So if you spend the pricey cost, and if you get a headache, that will tell you to stop using them.

I was going to state magnesium. It is obviously my favorite supplement since I suggest it to others often though for me I have not seen much change but it may help your muscle relax. I see you have anxiety etc and do you think your migraines are worse during a high state of that?

magnesium does jack **** for me basically, i took it for awhile too. ok so yah i wouldnt take the fibroboost

but the nattokinase might help me out. i get cluster headaches/tension headaches.

sorry for the language, im used to the crazymeds.org lingo, cuz ive been on that site lately alot.

So you are looking for supplement help for the head aches? I asked on my thread but do you have rsd? I ask cause my pain doc suggested vitamin c too. So I m not sure if you take that but I thought I would suggest it.

yah i take vit c, it's in my b-complex.

mrs D
 

mrs D you still didn't tell me about nattokinase so far, so what is it, is it any good?

Butterbur is known to help with headaches.
I have seen a study indicating clearly of the possibility it helps people.
Magnesium is also well liked.

Other supplements said to help:
Calcium
CoQ10
B Vitamins

Some people say they benefit from Feverfew (it never helped me).

thank you ill def check out butterbur for my headaches,

but i was also looking for something akin to a coq10, in that something that would help out my vascular system in a way, like the nattokinase is supposed to do. nattokinase is supposedly a soybean type aspirin. so nevermind about that.

I was told to only take "pharmaceutical grade" Butterbur.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/...tterbur_01.htm

Thought it was important to mention this...wont say anything else.

here ill do the work http://www.raysahelian.com/nattokinase.html

i think it's just some soybean aspirin stuff basically

not for me, i may try butterbur, in fact, they put that in sinufix which is on my wishlist of things to get on iherb

no, i was just getting frustrated cuz i wasn't getting answers to nattokinase, but now that i know that it's just like a tofu aspirin. i don't need help with that anymore.

the butterbur in sinufix is the one i was gonna look into, i don't really care for life extension products too much, plus look at the side they're advertising the products they are talkign about. i only trust products from iherb or jarrow or now products....they don't sell much life extension products on iherb.

here's the basis on what was said in that article about pharmaceutical or the safety of butterbur products:

Butterbur root should never be consumed directly from the plant, since it contains compounds called pyrrolizidine alkaloids that have may have hepatotoxic and carcinogenic effects.17

However, extracts that are prepared for human use are processed to remove these alkaloids. An independent evaluation of data gathered from various trials concluded that commercially marketed butterbur root extract is entirely safe for human consumption.26 A standardized butterbur extract has been used by more than half a million German citizens since its introduction in 1988, and the safety data are excellent.18

A dosage of 50-75 mg of standardized butterbur extract twice daily for up to four months has demonstrated efficacy in migraine prevention,17 while 50 mg twice daily has been used in the management of allergic rhinitis.17

No instances of overdose with butterbur have been reported in the scientific literature,17 but anyone who has a known allergy to plants in the Asteraceae family, such as ragweed or daisies, should consume butterbur with caution.

Well, one of the top headache clinics in this country, and the neurologists there use magnesium for many headache patients.

One thing that concerns me here, Bruegger, is that you have
TWO diagnoses for headache. Cluster which is an extreme, type and seasonal and migraine? So you should be seeing an expert for proper treatment. I would make sure you are being diagnosed properly. The basic treatment for cluster today is high dose melatonin with medical supervision along with other agents. This link lists the possible treatments for this extreme disorder:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
A patient with cluster cannot treat themselves. This disorder is still being researched and the interventions for it require medical intervention.

"Magnesium migraine" search on PubMed examples:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
The two conferences I attended in the past 2 years on the treatment of chronic head pain and other chronic pain disorders which had the leading researchers in the field, continually state that MOH medication overuse headache is caused by misuse of pain meds for headache. For headache patients they do not recommend more than twice a week use of ANY pain controlling drug...including Tylenol and aspirin. Pain relieving drugs increase the pain loop in the brain and a tolerance to them is quickly induced and MORE pain more frequently results.

And a concern with Nattokinsase is that it is predominately a BLOOD THINNER. You already take
Lexapro, which is an SSRI and all SSRI's thin the blood. You cannot take drugs that thin the
blood while using the Lexapro without blood tests to see what is happening with you in this regard.

well, i don't see an expert i just a see psychiatrist basically, cause my primary care thinks that I'm just crazy and undeserving of a referral of any sort, and don't even think twice about putting me on melatonin that stuff makes my insomnia worse for some reason.



aha so that's why i can't handle too much aspirin cause of my ssri.. i get some sorda allergic reaction to it sometimes. i don't really use it much anyways.

and another thing is neurologists don't know anything, they don't know the difference between a cluster headache and migraine anyway. mostly my headaches are due to muscle tension(cluster) and increased sensation of the skin(migraine)

The conferences I attended were sponsored by neurologists who specialize in headache and chronic pain.

Cluster headaches are intense --so painful that there is a high suicide rate among those patients. The doctor described the pain as having a hot poker thru the eye. They are seasonal, and
have periods of remission, with return during spring and fall.
They are not tension headaches.

Migraine is a vascular headache, involving blood vessels in the head.

I do not think a psychiatrist is trained to handle the myriad differences in headache types. Giving the wrong name to an affliction, can be very misleading.
This link from the speaker I just heard in May may be helpful for you. It discusses the different types of headache:
http://books.google.com/books?id=FqS...esult&resnum=1
This is a long link but it is filled with very useful information.
Scroll back and forth to read all the articles. Google only took me to the cluster portion. But you can read the whole thing by scrolling up and down.

If you Google Dr. Newman you may find more. He was a really good speaker, and was very helpful to listen to.

A tension headache is neither a migraine or cluster headache.
monograph #8 discusses a tension headache.

yes, i think you're right, thank you for the information, i think what i have is dystonia left over from the atypicals i used to take, which had been giving me cranial dystonais which lead me to the tension type headaches, and furthermore migraines when it gets bad, which explains why only 25 mg of topamax and 300 mg of gabapentin really works and helps them out.

what tests would u suggest? fibrinogen quantitative? -i think i can order a test for that, wish me good luck with that... i have a hard enough time getting an appointment with a doctor.

and also do benzodiazepines also thing the blood?

Benzos are questionable. I have read that they can cause hemorrhages in the sclera of the eye in some people.

INR is the standard clotting test. Also platelet levels.
This link explains ProTime and INR:
http://www.labtestsonline.org/unders...s/pt/test.html

People combining certain herbs/supplements have to be careful about bleeding effects.

For example there should be a sticker on your Lexapro stating not to use with NSAIDs or aspirin. That is a clear example of also watching for supplement interactions where bleeding is concerned..

There are so many, and also many not even tested yet!
Before starting anything, Bruegger, you should look up the supplements carefully before taking them, since you are experimenting quite a bit with them. I have several good links in the stickies at the top of the forum, where you can look up risks of things.

i know im not taking this natto stuff, and also, there is no sticker on my lexapro stating do not take with NSAIDs. the only thing i was thinking of taking lately would be garlic and pine bark extract(pycnogenol) to help my skin.

that maryland website although helpful does not have many herbs listed.

Then your pharmacy is remiss in not putting that one on. Check the handout they give you too.

SSRIs can be additive in causing bleeding with other drugs and supplements.

Garlic may increase bleeding:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/gar...patient-garlic

Just type into Google, the supplement in question followed by "bleeding"... that will usually get you hits.

Not every site has every supplement or drug. So you may have to look at several before deciding. I think anyone looking for supplements to help them should be very cautious and conservative and find as much info as possible before embarking on using something.

but the PT, INR would not check for allergies to aspirin, or it would in no way be related to allergies to aspirin and is only indicated for bleeding disorders. the only test that would relate to that allergies to aspiring, would most likely be fibrinogen levels. and plus i have no bleeding disorder( in that when i get a cut my blood clots normally.

oh and does artane have blood thinning effects too?

bump
 

bump bump bump

mrs d artane blood thinning effects?

not that I know of. It has parasympathetic actions, dry mouth,
decreased sweating, perhaps blurred vision.

Stay hydrated and see that your mouth doesn't get too dry...or your teeth may suffer some.