Virtual World versus Real World
 

Virtual World versus Real World

Wo/man worships and fears power; we enthusiastically give our loyalty to our leader. Sapiens are at heart slavish. Therein lay the rub, as Shakespeare might say.

Freud was the first to focus upon the phenomenon of a patient’s inclination to transfer the feelings s/he had toward her parents as a child to the physician. The patient distorts the perception of the physician; s/he enlarges the figure up far out of reason and becomes dependent upon him. In this transference of feeling, which the patient had for his parents, to the physician the grown person displays all the characteristics of the child at heart, a child who distorts reality in order to relieve his helplessness and fears.

Freud saw these transference phenomena as the form of human suggestibility that makes the control over another, as displayed by hypnosis, as being possible. Hypnosis seems mysterious and mystifying to us only because we hide our slavish need for authority from our self. We live the big lie, which lay within this need to submit our self slavishly to another, because we want to think of our self as self-determined and independent in judgment and choice.

The predisposition to hypnosis is identical to that which gives rise to transference and it is characteristic of all sapiens. We could not function as adults if we retained this submissive attitude to our parents, however, this attitude of submissiveness, as noted by Ferenczi, is “The need to be subject to someone remains; only the part of the father is transferred to teachers, superiors, impressive personalities; the submissive loyalty to rulers that is so widespread is also a transference of this sort.”

Freud saw immediately that when caught up in groups wo/man became dependent children once again. They abandoned their individual egos for that of the leader; they identified with their leader and proceeded to function with him as their ideal. Freud identified man, not as a herd animal but as a horde (teeming crowd) animal that is led by a chief. Wo/man has an insatiable need for authority.

People have an insatiable need to be hypnotized by authority; they seek a magical protection as when they were infants protected by their mother. This is the force that acts to hold groups together, intertwined within a mutually constructed but often mindless interdependence. This mindless group think also builds a feeling of potency. The members feel a sense of unity within the grasp of their leadership.

‘Why are groups so blind and stupid?’ Freud asked; and he replied that mankind lived by self delusion. They “constantly give what is unreal precedence over what is real.” The real world is too frightening to behold; delusion changes this by making sapiens seem important. This explains the terrible sadism we see in group activity.

Questions for discussion

Is there a vital difference between human sciences (such as psychology) and natural sciences (such as physics)?

Is it possible for humans to create a virtual world that is more important than the real world? What is the difference between a virtual world and the real world?

~~~~~~~huh~~~~

freud had issues himself

You know when I look at people, I see a bunch of grown people playing adults. Everything you learn as a child you carry over into your adult life, and if you ever noticed you will find most people are the very same person grown as they were as children. I am not talking about how you reacted to things as a child compared to the way you would react once an adult, although it isnt usually that much different.

I game A LOT! This puts you into a virtual type of world where you can be anything you want....including a different gender. I have noticed that sometimes the lines are blurred between adults and children. I have met people that I would have sworn they were 35 years old, but find out sometimes months later that I have been hanging around with a 12 year old, and visa versa with the 35 year old that I thought was a 12 year old the whole time.

Sometimes you run into the manipulative types that have to control every situation, and will throw a hissy fit when they are not allowed to. Then learn later on that these same people are followers when they cant hide behind their virtual characters.

I actually believe most folks behave how they perceive others think they should behave typically. There are exceptions and they run from one extreme to the other.

As far as the sciences go you have to wonder sometimes if everything we might see is really what we are seeing. When you realize there are colors that we cannot see, and sounds that we cannot hear.

I think that we are the creators of our own realities, and we will grow, learn, and act only as far as we believe our limits will allow. Some people were programed by there parents/role models to believe they are stupid, and they will be stupid until they realize that they have as much ability as anyone else, and some will have the belief that they can do most anything because they were programed to believe this.

Reality? Have you seen the matrix? Maybe it isnt so far fetched hmmmm.

You could be my son. He talks EXACTLY like you.

He goes in Second Life day and night. He prefers THAT world to the actual one we live in.

So I DO KNOW a bit about virtual worlds, gaming, etc. etc.

I prefer reality any day of the week. It exists....in real time...with real problems.....but it exists.

It's not make believe .....which is exactly what a Virtual World is.

Allen


I would say the difference between a virtual world and the real world is that the real world is grounded in literal experience whereas the virtual world is not grounded.

SGCS (Second Generation Cognitive Science) informs me that we have literal experiences that become sources for abstract ideas or part of other literal experiences.

The conceptual structure of a literal experience is mapped into another mental space to become part of another concept. For example: the experience of warmth resulting from being held by the mother is a literal experience that can be later mapped onto a subjective concept of affection. This means that the subjective concept then contains some or all of the conceptual structure of the literal experience of warmth. That is why almost everyone senses a feeling of warmth when feeling affection for someone.

Humans are artifact adoring artisans

Humans are meme (idea) adoring creators.

Humans create symbols (abstract ideas) upon which they place value sufficient for killing and dying.

Americans create a flag (an artifact of cloth) which symbolizes the value they place in a nation (artifact, idea, meme) for which they will really kill and die (nothing artificial here).

Humans require meaningful symbols upon which to give life sufficient purpose for living, dying, and killing.

Because humans can create their own meaningful artifacts why does our species place meaning into such dangerous artifacts (memes, ideologies) as religion, nation, capitalism, communism, etc?

The freedom we have to create that which is meaningful to us is poorly used, why?

Why do we waste such a precious freedom on such dangerous toys?

We do so because we lack the courage (self-reliance) to go against the flow.

Our adaptation to society as infants and children has left us without the courage and confidence required to go against the flow of society. We have the freedom but not the energy and courage to overcome the blind habit of conformity.

We are not determined atoms; we do have the potential to do much better. How can we overcome what we have become and thus become something better?

We can overcome our present predicament by creating a new reality, a new set of meaningful symbols that we choose to give value.

Imagination is the instrument by which we can overcome.

I often wish I had gone to college so I could articulate as well and as meaningful as you just did.

I have tried to convey your message to my son (over the course of 7 years). I no longer do this because, 1. he doesn't get it and won't get it, 2. it's counter productive to my health.

But you worded it so beautifully, I can't thank you enough.

Imagine, if everyone under the age of 20, ran away to a virtual world and stayed there. We would then have no teachers, no doctors, no researchers, no nothing.

Our world would cease to exist.

How sad is THAT concept??

Thanks much for your beautifully worded written thought process.

Melody

I think kids are drawn to this virtual world because society has made the real world appear too frightening to them - way beyond a child's control. They also haven't equipped them with the courage and balance it takes to be able to walk with your head held high - without getting shot down. They haven't given them the tools needed to create a safe environment of their own that can sustain future generations. :(

There is also a large segment of society who thinks the world is about to come to an end. With an attitude like that, why bother trying to learn how to be grounded here on earth or learn what the real world is like? Why bother planning for grandchildren? :(

When my son was in junior high, I finally broke down and bought him a video game called "Goldeneye" (I think that was the name). At the time I felt he needed it because he was going through a particularly rough time in our neighborhood. It was a good way to get out all that frustration. :)

I learned how to play the game too, and we had fun "killing" each other. The little punk was so good, he'd slap me after he killed me. Then again, I had the upper hand - told him, "You DO want dinner tonight, don't you?" :p

I got him back though. While he was in school, I practiced the game. We played it together that evening, and I beat him good - then slapped him for good measure. He was so insulted. :D

After a while, he got tired of playing games with me and decided to head on out the door and give real life a shot. He knew if he needed to duke it out with someone, mom was at home waiting to take him on. It wasn't long before he lost interest in video games altogether. :p

Melody I wouldnt worry too much about your son, he could be
doing much worse than playing games. I know he cant be too
bad because I know his parents are pretty cool people, and
that rubs off ya know.:)

Coberst, I'm not to sure what to think about your critical
thinking, and am wondering if your really throwing out these
ideals as a means to stimulate our thinking processes, or
trying to make everyone think your some kinda smart person.
I am not really impressed with $100 words. Anyone can spew
those out. What impresses me is someone that really does
have a god given gift of intelligence, and uses it to better
themselves and those around them instead of throwing out
meaningless subject matter.

I have read many books on this subject, and have come to the
conclusion it is all subjective. Anyone can read into this
anything they like, and come up with their own conclusions.
You seem to lean towards the idea that we as humans are
evil, or war like. Granted that may be true, but if you look
back into our recent past you will find we are much better
off in our evil ways today than any other time in history.

We do have our problems, but they could be related to the
fact that we dont have the diseases running amok and killing
2/3's of the population every few years. I mean there was
some population controls in our history that kept the
population fairly thin, not to mention the tyrants running
around killing everyone in sight for monetary gain.

If you dig even deeper into the human history you will find
that human civilization may have been more advanced way back
centuries ago. Then they wiped each other out in some kind
of nuclear war. Thus throwing technology away and regressing
back to hunter gatherers and the tribal mind set.
So it seems that we inherently have this propensity for
violence going back for what seems like forever.

For me the virtual gaming world is much better than the
painful reality I live in. I tried the drugs and was a
zombie that couldnt put 2 sentences together let alone
remember what I was thinking only a few minutes before. So I
choose to distract myself from the painful world, and have
some fun in a world where I can walk and run, and do things
that I cannot do in the real world.

Unfortunately, my son got into Nintendo, Playstation, Supernintendo, Gameboy, HE HAD THEM ALL. He also bought them ALL with his birthday monies, Christmas monies. He actually bought his first computer (don't ask what he paid, it was ridiculous), because it had to have this memory, this size screen, etc. This was over 8 years ago. He had come into money from a lawsuit when he was 18.

Way back then, who thought it would be a terrible thing for a kid to be on the computer (instead of ourside drinking and drugging like all my friend's kids were doing). They actually said "oh my god, your son is on the Dean's List, and my son is out drinking till 4 a.m..

But that behavior only led him to do MORE stuff on the Internet, then when he moved away, he started going to Casinos, (god knows how much he did Internet Gambling, I will never know). He discovered Second Life years ago, and now he LIVES in it. He got himself an apartment. He has multiple accounts. I've seen his avatars, they are always robots. He has stopped interacting in actual life and lives only to do god knows what in Second Life. Up until a few months ago, he was into heavy gambling stuff on Second Life. They took that away. Know what he told me "we found a way to do gambling in Second Life".

I guess Where there's a will, there's a way!!!

Do you have any idea how many people I know that their marriages broke up because the wife (or husband) is on the computer in Second Life, and the kid hasn't had his diaper changed in two days. People have run away with other people that they met in Second Life.

Games are fun, sure they are, but there has to be a point where people know what is REAL, and what is FANTASY!!

This stuff can ruin lives if taken to too great a level.

Just my opinion.

I hear you Melody. It worries me to see people "living" on the computer. If I had a choice, I wouldn't be here. I'd be outside playing!!! :D Oh wait, today's Monday - I'd be out there working!!! :p

You did what you thought was the right thing, and it probably was the right thing to do. No one warned us back then how addictive these games would be on our children. Marketers weren't concerned about people trading in their lives for their products. :rolleyes:

Gambling/gaming is just as addictive and destructive as alcohol/drugs, but BOTH are heavily marketed as a way to "get away from it all." The warnings about addiction don't really mean anything because addiction sneaks up on a person. People think it will never happen to them because they believe they can keep it "social."

Have you ever seen a little kid say "I want to be an addict when I grow up!" or "I want to hide in my room when I grow up!" I haven't.

I'm so sorry this has happened to your son. :hug: As a mother myself, I know how it can tear you apart when all you can do is watch from a distance. I hope he can find the help he needs - whatever that may be.