Toxic neuropathy????
 

I am a 23 year old male, in very good physical shape until around 6 month ago.

I self prescribed Levofloxacin because i thought i had a chest infection, i took 1 tablet a day for 5 days. On the 4th day of the course (saturday) i planned to go out drinking. I checked if the anti-biotic reacted with alcohol, it does'nt, so i embarked on the night out.

I took that days anti-biotic at around 7pm, the same time i had taken the previous three days dose. Throughout the evening i drank heavily until around 11pm when i was offered 1 ecstasy/MDMA tablet. Foolishly i accepted, without so much of a thought that it may react with the anti-biotic. Between 11pm and around 2am i would hazard a guess and say i took 4 more ecstasy tablets, 5 in total.

I returned home at around 6am feeling all the usual effects of ecstasy.(increased heart rate, jaw clenching, inability to urinate etc.) I started to worry when i started to feel sick, my heart rate would not lower and my muscles were aching from head to toe. I was unable to sleep and had no appertite, i managed to eat a sandwich and two yoghurts. At around 4pm on the sunday i finally started to feel better and fell asleep for an hour or so, when i awoke my pinky and ring fingers on both hands were numb, feeling returned straight away after straightening my arms.

Since that evening if i sleep with arms bent i will always suffer numbness in my fourth and fifth fingers in both hands, also in my thumbs, forearms and somtimes upper arms.

Other symptoms that i have started feeling since the event six month ago include, tingling in both feet when crossing legs, electric shock pains in hands and feet when over stretching, slight burning sensations in both hands and feet, elbow soreness, sporadic muscle twitching, slight blurred vision in right eye.

Only recently i have developed pressure headaches, stomach cramps, constipation and diarreah ( undigested food in stool)

Any information on Toxic Neuropathys would be greatly appreciated??

Hello, MightyB, welcome to PN forum.

I have a question for you: How often have you used Levaquin in the past 5 years?

As far as I'm aware mrs d I have never previously used levofloxacin, I have taken other antibiotics before such as erythromycin and amoxicillin with no adverse effects. I have read on the Internet that levofloxacin is a inhibitor of the enzyme that metabolises MDMA but I cannot find any information of side effects of the interaction?!?

Let me also state mrs d that I am by no means a regular illegal drug user, I would probably say that since the age of 18 I have taken recreational drugs 10 times without experiencing any adverse effects to my health.

Well, Levofloxacin has some neurotoxic effects of its own.

The family it belongs to, all share this characteristic.
Here is a monograph with more information:
http://www.drugs.com/ppa/levofloxacin.html

This drug can cause neuropathy. If you Google it with the
keywords--- Levofloxacin neuropathy--- you will see various
reports.

This antibiotic can disrupt the GI flora and cause diarrhea.
In patients who use other antibiotics often, this may lead to
infection with C. difficle, or other forms of colitis. (diarrhea)
This may need special treatment and should be evaluated by a doctor.

Levofloxacin prolongs QT interval of the heart, and therefore can be additive to other drugs, be dangerous if you are dehydrated and low in potassium and magnesium, or have a genetic tendency for this. There are isolated reports of MDMA affecting the heart, but not much else is available that I can find now.
Levaquin itself is a major drug and has potential for causing long term reactions. One of these is tendon ruptures, which may occur up to a year after use of this drug.
Some people have visited on this forum after one course of this antibiotic with neuropathy as a side effect.

CNS effects are also possible, but depend on age and dose.
Elderly taking high dose may develop confusion, seizures and other CNS effects. This is less likely in younger patients.
This drug can damage the liver and in fact two other fluoroquinolones have been taken off the market in the US for this. In fact Floxin oral has fallen also into disuse because of seizures it caused. The book Bitter Pills deals with it.
http://www.stephenfried.com/bitter-pills/

This site discusses the side effects of fluroquinolones from a medical perspective:
http://www.medicationsense.com/artic...cs_052205.html

thank you mrs d for the hasty replies.

from trawling the internet i was aware that fluoroquiniline antibiotics have, in rare cases caused nerve damage along with other medical complications.
I am convinced though that the symptoms i am feeling now are the result of an interaction with MDMA.

I have had a number of tests done in the previous 5 months. i have had a resting ECG, a exercise ECG and a echocardiogram done and heart bloods taken, because of sporadic palpitations and chest area aches all of which came back normal.

i have also had a cervical MRI taken which came back normal.

I have had my eyes tested (because of the slight blurred vision in one eye) the optician said i am slightly short sighted in one eye but that it was so minor no prescription was needed and that the overall health of my eyes was fine.

With all of the above tests i choose not to mention the incident which preceded the onset of symptoms mainly out of shame but also the fact that i did not want to believe that it could have caused these symtoms.

None of the symptoms that i am experiencing have had any real negative effect on my overall health in terms of being able to do my job etc. but mentally i have been agonising over whats happening to my body and the progression it may take So maybe this is playing a part somewhat in my symptoms????

Any information or advice on what course these types of symptoms are likely to take would be greatly appreciated, is it a case of ignoring them and sooner or later they will improve or do i need to seek professional help??

I appreciate that everybody is different therefore prognosis is difficult but i have ceased exposure to the anti- biotic and lead a healthy lifestyle, exercising everyday. Needless to say exposure to recreational drugs has stopped as has drinking alcohol.

As you can probably tell im clutching at straws with what might be happening to me so i appreciate all opinions on the matter.

Based on what I have seen about MDMA so far (one researcher is in my area and was on cable with his studies)..Dr. Galloway

both papers abstracts here:
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us



The effects of MDMA are mostly immediate. If you survive an overdose or heavy use without a seizure or hyperthermia, there is not much to worry about. The only thing I have seen so far is the suggestion that MDMA affects serotonin functions and may cause depression or some permanent damage to the brain and its neurotransmitter systems of dopamine and serotonin.

The effects of Levaquin however, are not rare. Many people are on the net about that drug, some with neuropathies that do not resolve.
example:
http://www.fqresearch.org/ftrf_common_adrs.htm
http://www.fqresearch.org/cns_1.htm
Fluroquinolone antibiotics should not be used first line for minor infections. They are to be used when the risk/benefit ratio determines other agents are not effective.

This link is to one of the abstracts on PubMed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...m&ordinalpos=1
It has an email to one of the authors (Dr. Perrine).
I suggest you contact this researcher for more data on the drug.

The net has many sites about MDMA...like this one:
http://www.mdma.net/#mdmatox

Ive been away a while now but thought i would update you on some tests that i have had done recently.

I have had nerve conduction studies done on both my arms and legs which came back "PERFECTLY NORMAL", blood tests ordered by the neurologist which came back "PERFECTLY NORMAL", a full neurological exam which came back "PERFECTLY NORMAL" a cranial MRI which came back "PERFECTLY NORMAL"

The neurologist said i was a perfectly fit and healthy young man. I was a little surprised that all the tests came back normal as my symptoms, i think, have gotten worse?!?!?

I am slightly puzzled????

It is now time for you to investigate Gluten intolerance.

This can cause GI upsets and vague neurological symptoms.

http://jccglutenfree.googlepages.com...eralneuropathy

Was B12 tested? What are your numbers? "normal" is often misreported for this nutrient. Did you have Vit D testing?

It is possible some of your GI problems (if they occurred only after the Levaquin use) are due to dysbiosis that occurs after antibiotics. Since you state you have used other ones as well before the Levaquin, you could have a problem brewing from pathogens in the GI tract. If you have chronic or frequent diarrhea, you lose electrolytes quickly and this affects nerves. Low magnesium and low potassium give paresthesias as a sign. Fixing this takes time and attention. You can start by eating a quality yogurt that has listed several strains of organisms to restore yourself. Or you can investigate a good probiotic product at your health food store. Some of these can be expensive.
Numbness and tingling with twitching is a sign of calcium/magnesium imbalance.

Hello again.

I have come to the concludsion Mrs D that everything that is happening to me is a result of the anti- biotic. Since my last post things have taken a turn for the worst.

I have started to have regular palpitations (2-3 episodes a day) especially after alcohol. Also i have noticed that my hands seem to be suffering from atrophy, inbetween my finger tendons seem to hollowing out also i have a area on my wrist doing the same. This is accompanied by hand cramps and a feeling that my nerves of the hand are not protected so turning the door handle for instance causes a "nervy feeling". I have also noticed that the muscles around the elbow are getting smaller.

I am also experiencing foot cramps, back cramps and leg cramps along with back ache. It seems as though my whole body is malfunctioning?? my hamstrings have become very tight aswell.

The fasiculations have gotten worse aswell.

I am very very freightened and not sure what to do, all my symptoms are identical to ALS and such diseases!!!!

ecstasy. booze . Plug your cytochrome P450 system up with some Levaquin, the other junk stays in your system longer....

MDMA is KNOWN to produce neurological damage. A lot of neurological damage is at the molecular level and wont show on many tests. Small fiber neuropathy for example requires a skin biopsy.

Plus a little considered fact, Ecstasy is illegal...probably with good reason. You are messing with your dopamine receptors and could end up wrecking them permanently and ending up with Parkinsons, at the least....not to mention you are producing serotonin syndrome, which can be fatal.

Why blame the antibiotic? I don't think you will qualify for the law suit...you need tendon damage, ruptured tendons to be specific.

I think you could learn from this...Don't do Ecstasy....it isn't good for you.

You can consider me a mean old lady, fine, but I have done a fair amount of ambulance runs over my career, to pick up kids with decerebrate posturing, wierded out pupils, peeing their pants....some of them never come back. Now is that recreation??

I don't want to sound like a downer... but there is very little else
I can suggest here for you, Mighty.

I've given you links to show what is known about X and Levaquin so far. I would suspect there are other things that will be discovered in the future as well.

X is very dangerous. And its suppliers for it vary in quality and quantity in each tablet. You may get weak X one time and the next time it might be 10 fold. Since there is no control over this, and because other countries with no controls are main suppliers, we don't even know if X is contaminated or not.

Here is a Wiki link on Levaquin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levofloxacin

I do think it is rather early for atrophy. Atrophy usually takes longer to show up. You will have to seek expert neurological treatment from now on.

I hope with time you will return to your pre-drug use state. That is still possible.

Mighty B,

SWIM has been experiencing some similar symptoms. SWIM is an 18 yr old Male. Healthy up until this incident.

Over the new years SWIM took a high dose of E. The next day SWIM started a prescription of Augmentin (amoxicillin & clavulin). SWIM did not think there would be any adverse effects. SWIM noted that SWIM felt like SWIM was still being affected by the E for up to a week after, and even felt the foggyness for almost a month and still some what today.

Symptoms SWIM experiences:

Pressure headaches - feels like the right side of SWIM's head/eye are about 10 ft in front of the left side of SWIM's head.

Severe sense of unbalance.

Numbness in the right portion of SWIM's R side of head, R arm, and 4th and 5th fingers.

Weakness in SWIM's right leg and arm.

Burning in SWIM's R fore arm.

Odd pain/weak sensation in R wrist and R groin and R knee.

Odd pain in neck/ lymph nodes area in R groin and R neck.

Blurred vision out of SWIM's R eye.

Slight lower back discomfort and pain.

R shoulder discomfort.

Also SWIM's R eye is a little bit more dilated than the left.

On top of that SWIM's overall vision has been affected for lights and shadows really bother SWIM. (street lights have a star like aura and it is hard for SWIM to focus on computer screens).

SWIM symptoms have been somewhat bell shaped or parabolic for SWIM has been noting that SWIM has been feeling a lot better as every day comes along, except for the vision and newly developed back discomfort.

SWIM used to habitually smoke MJ. That has now stopped considering probably just like you SWIM fears for SWIM's life.

SWIM met with an optometrist who can come to no conclusions and says SWIM's eyes look perfectly normal.

SWIM has met with a Neuro who has requested an MR of SWIM’s head, however SWIM is located in Canada and is American and is doing SWIM’s best to expedite the process by hopefully going back to the states in two weeks. All blood tests for liver function, white blood cell count, and HIV came back normal... along with a couple others I just cannot remember the name of the tests.

SWIM has a meeting with an Internist tmrw morning.

SWIM is not a regular MDMA or E user SWIM has probably used it 5 times maximum before this incident.

I am curious if you have found anything out for SWIM is sh*tting SWIM’s pants, and is looking for as much help as possible. I am very concerned for SWIM, he is a very good friend.

I hope that your symptoms are slowly improving like his. SWIM has learned SWIM’s lesson and is doing SWIM’s best to take care of SWIM’s body.

I wish you the best of luck, I know how hard, scary, and stressful this is watching SWIM go through it.

Please reply.

Hello, there, JohnSmith...

Did you read this whole thread? I have put up some links to
what X does in the brain on here.

Your situation is somewhat different in that your antibiotic use is more benign.

But from what is known about X, it is capable of damaging your brain.

I don't think much has been investigated about peripheral effects, but what you feel may be coming completely from your brain misfiring. It is sadly a tough situation, because you don't know what was really in the X you took. It could have had anything else in it including "toxins". So it is not only X to worry about but contaminants. I don't think at this time there is treatment for your condition. Some psychiatrists may treat the resulting depression with drugs they think may help.
But damaging your brain with illegal substances is a real phenomenon.

Dr. Amen has spent 20 yrs doing SPECT scans of peoples' brains. This link shows one scan of a person abusing drugs:

http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-sci...?img=da_CS.gif

You can view the others there on that link as well.
This is what a healthy brain should look like:
http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-sci...healthy_CS.gif

Posting here on the PN board, you will not find many posters with your experience. Most of us have other problems however.

Mrs D,
That imagery of the two brains is enough to scare anyone off drugs.
What was the drug that caused so much damage?

Dr. Amen has a show on PBS when they do the "pledge drives".
He said on TV that drug abuse including many things make a brain with holes in it.
The pictures he had on TV were more dramatic, and he even said he made thousands of posters and donated them to schools, for anti-drug use educational purposes.

His books go into more detail. But long term or high dose opiates was one I do remember. MJ was included...and even nicotine!

The picture he used on TV showed huge and many areas of no activity! Like Swiss Cheese.
You might find his book in the library, like I did.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Cha...ange+your+life

This is really really an eye opening book .. it even goes into couples counseling when spouses have different brain maps and react to things in ways to make conflict.

The biological things of course, are the real eye openers!

Hey MightyB and JohnSmith,

I noticed that these posts are from a long time ago, so I hope you see this post -

Did your condition ever improve? What ended up happening?

MightyB - Reading your post is crazy - it is like reading the experience of the last 3 months of my life.

About 3.5 months ago I had a sinus infection, took antibiotics (amoxycilan), it went way. A week after that I did some E and instead of rolling I felt really shitty (all my friends rolled just fine, so I know the E was fine). I woke up the next morning with what seemed like the flu, thought I just had the flu, whatever.

The flu like illness cleared after a week, but left me with a "brain fog" that persisted (and still does) for a few months. For weeks after the incident I would feel like I was coming up on E from time to time (vividness of colors, jittery feeling, etc) and I have since felt kinda like I am on drugs a little bit.

Furthermore, I have been dealing with headaches, blurry vision in my left eye, abnormal sensations in my hands and feet (that thing you were talking about with the hand/elbow is spot on - if I scrunch my arms I get nervy - weird feeling in hands, and it feels like the nerve under my elbow is more exposed than it once was). Anxiety, depression, trouble concentrating, jitterniness, headaches, muscle tightness/pain in legs and back, blah blah blah.

I am seeing doctors for possible MS, Lyme Disease, ALS, infectious disease - testing for everything, you name it. I've seen 5 docs, and only one thinks I have possible Lyme, other than that they are striking out. The docs don't seem to think anything of my occasional (3 -5 times/year) MDMA use.

Please let me know what happened to you/what you found out. I have been dealing with this for 3 months now and I am FREAKING out!

Thanks

FunksyD

Im still not in the best of shape, after a year or so I seemed to be improving in all areas, still had the 'nervy' sensations in my elbows, hands and feet but blurred vision and heart palpitations abated slightly. But the last 6 months or so my symptoms have returned only slightly worse this time. Heart Palpitations on a regular basis, blurred vision is back, permanent numbness in one of my toes. From what information I have looked up on the internet it seems that I must've triggered some sort of auto- immune reaction.

Mighty B,

Thanks for your response, I am sorry that you are going through so much. As I stated in my post, my symptoms are/were very, very similar to yours and the illness followed what seems like a very similar trajectory, so I'm hoping the following information might help you:

After seeing many doctors and having many tests (which all came back negative), my mom suggested I get tested for Lyme disease. I went to a Lyme Literate doctor and had a Western Blot Lyme test (the ones that most doctors do - the Elsa I believe - are highly inaccurate and result in many false negatives, if you've seen many doctors you might have already had this test and gotten a false negative). The Western Blot came back positive for Lyme disease and I was put on very aggressive antibiotic therapy and my symptoms have greatly improved over the course of the last 3 - 4 months. After feeling like my life was over for 3+ months, like I would never get back, learning that the MDMA was not the actual problem, that I hadn't done some irreparable damage to my brain, and that there was an actual bacterial infection to blame for my illness, I must say that I was greatly relieved. That relief continued when I began treatment and actually started to get better.

According to my doctor, I will likely be treated for another 3 - 4 months before I am completely free of Lyme.

Lyme disease is a bacterial infection that you contract from ticks. I am very active and outdoors a lot, so that is likely how I contracted Lyme. I do remember being bitten by ticks in the past, but they are small, so some people who have Lyme never remember being bitten. The Lyme bacteria are a member of the spirochete family (like syphilis) and are spiral shaped, therefore they are very good at burrowing into soft human tissue such as joints, muscles, nerves, the eyes, and brain. When someone is infected with Lyme the bacteria burrows into such places and releases toxins, and these toxins create all sorts of problems - including all of the problems that you listed as having. Lyme has been known to mimic hundreds of diseases and has been associated with over 200 symptoms!

I told my doc about the MDMA and the antibiotics I was on before I got sick and he had a relatively straight forward reason for why I, seemingly all of a sudden, caught Lyme disease (in the dead of winter). Young people, who have strong immune systems, can catch Lyme and show no symptoms for a very long time. The immune system of the healthy person suppresses the Lyme, but it often times cannot eliminate it completely. Once the immune system is compromised (for me it was a combination of the stress and travel involved in a new job, lack of sleep, and a solid bender capped by a night of MDMA use) the Lyme is able to take hold and start wreaking havoc on the body. At this point the only way to get better is to treat the Lyme.

I am not saying you have Lyme, as I am not a doctor and I really don't know the ins and outs of your personal story. I am saying that it sounds like you and I went through the same thing, my problems were caused by Lyme disease, and yours might be too. If you haven't, I would recommend you at least look at some Lyme information and see if it sounds like you might be dealing with it. If you do end up suspecting Lyme, get in touch with a Lyme Literate Doctor (most doctors are NOT Lyme Literate and will dismiss the symptoms as being in your head) and get a Western Blot test done. Furthermore, don't believe what the CDC has to say about Lyme. The CDC board that governs what is classified as Lyme is in the pockets of the insurance companies (who do not want to pay for Lyme treatment) and they have done all they can to prevent the majority of Lyme diseases cases from being treated (I would have never believed this if I didn't have to deal with this myself, but it is a sad truth)

For reliable information about Lyme disease check out the "International Lyme and Other Associated Diseases Society" website

All the best!

Thanks for the reply, I will look in to getting tested straight away although Im not sure Lyme is the problem. Out of interest what are your hangovers like after drinking alcohol since your symptoms started, I have found that the day after a drink my hangovers seem ALOT worse than before also heart palpitations greatly increase??

Tell me your doing better!!!
 

I have the exact same story no joke. I am an active 24 year old girl I was very healthy until I Went to vegas did molly woke up with numb hands mostly on the outer two fingers, getting progressively worse, weak, blurry eye, twitching, muscle and back pain. MRI, cat scan, blood work, heart checked-ALL good. This has been going on for 2 and a half weeks now And i don't feel like its getting better. Its giving me extreme anxiety which of course in return is making it worse. Ive been to emerge 3 times and no doctor can figure out what is wrong with me. Have an apt with neurologist in a few weeks, but please if you see this and have any update on how your doing please let me know! Thanks 😊

Hi Chelsb212,

Yes, you WERE a healthy 24 year old before you ingested this poison. Don't worry, I am not going to preach, I did my fair share in my youth but those were different days - still dangerous, but nowhere near as dangerous as today.

Do yourself a favour and read this, it will tell you what you MAY have taken as well as Molly:

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publication...stasy-or-molly

As to your symptoms, the first thing you have to do is admit possible cause, then your Drs have a starting point and reason for you presenting. That way treatment can be effectively targeted to your best benefit. Some of your symptoms match up with known problems caused by molly and the common contaminants.

Hopefully, as it has only been a short time, your damage is not permanent and treatment will bring you back to the level a 24 year old should enjoy, albeit wiser. I sincerely hope that is the case.

Dave.

Welcome Chelsb212. :Wave-Hello:

I read the link Dave, because I am Molly naive. I couldn't help but chuckle at the narrative that mentions marijuana more often than other substances that may affect the experience.

From the list of other drugs mentioned - coke, meth, alcohol, ketamine and I believe one other the one they bang on is the least synthesized and in my opinion most innoculous on the list.

I really hope Senator Gillibrand's effort gets it rescheduled on the Federal level. Prove to me that it is Schedule II worthy with testing, that is unless big pharma steps up their campaign

I'm not saying it is free of negatives, but personal experience, alcohol was much more detrimental to me.

Hi Jon,

Believe me, I would not normally point towards a site like this for advice, I was highlighting what the Manufacturers - if you can call them that - cut with the pure substance, usually to increase profit, sometimes to increase potency. This site gives a good list of contaminants, Ephedrine, Coke, Meth, Synthetic Cathinones…

All, some, or a combination may give some of the symptoms described.

I'm afraid I know nothing of Scheduling over there, here there is a massive crack down on everything from 'Legal Highs', up.

As for alcohol, I have been there heavily - luckily with no lasting damage (that shows so far). At the time it did more harm physically, mentally and socially than I care to admit.

Dave.

Marijuana is currently scheduled II with herion and meth, you know because they all belong together with no redeeming medicinal value... yeah...

Glance through our Classifications under the Misuse of Drugs Act.

http://www.drugscope.org.uk/resource...e-uk-drug-laws

Note Ketamine, a Class B, I take out of desperate necessity 4 times a day. I have to sign for it from the Hospital, not Pharmacy, destroy all labelling before disposal and never tell anyone I keep it at home. The anonimity afforded here negates that.

See 2 other Class B drugs, codeine and mj - which, despite calls, will probably never be de-criminalised here.

And you think your Schedules are a mess!

Dave.

Hi there, I took MDMA nearly 8 weeks ago and have all same symptoms as you. Stabbing pain in hand etc every symptom you have but I have also developed a red flush mark over my nose and cheeks as well as swollen palms and bulging veins on my hands. My symptoms are progressively getting worse. I’m worried sick to the point I feel suicidal now. Did your symptoms ever improve?