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DBS (Deep Brain Stimulation) for RSD and Dystonia
Hi,
Firstly, thanks so much Mike for that information - it is very interesting and given me a bit more insight into the underlying neuroscience of CRPS... I was wondering whether we could move your message on to here so that we can perhaps make a clearer link for people to discuss the potential of DBS. I know 4 people who have severe RSD and dystonia who have undergone implantation of electrodes and had the DBS. One person made a phenomenal recovery - after 5 years of not being able to move her legs or hips and a year stuck in hospital after her entire body locked her flat in spasm with her arms twisted up to her shoulders she had the DBS implanted. It has reduced the pain and, although she is not yet walking, she has complete use of her arms and hands (after coming round from the operation she could use both arms for the first time in over a year, and her left hand the first time in 4 years) and quality of life has improved 1000x as her mobility. She had electrodes implanted for dystonia and for pain (two different areas of the brain were thus being stimulated). Another girl I know who also has severe RSD/ Dystonia and had been completely paralysed for 4 years (including her face and jaw, leaving her requiring a G feed). She had the DBS with electrodes for dystonia and pain and it has reduced her pain quite significantly, loosened her muscles up and she can now eat, hold her head up independently and is starting to be able to turn her head. She is also now getting some degree of control over her muscles - it is now possible to feel the muscles twitching when she tries to move rather than the complete paralysis which was present before. I know several more case studies of people who have had the DBS but all of them have experienced some benefit in both pain and mobility from the treatment. Has anyone on here had the DBS? I don't think it's being used in the US yet for RSD but.. any information would be great, especially as it may be one of the few potential "drug free" treatments which targets the area in which are brains are wired incorrectly (over simplification, I know!). The research Mike posted also shows an identifiable, organic basis for electrode placement. TMS (Transmagnetic Stimuliation) is a handheld non invasive version of the DBS and I know that it has been used in studies on RSD in both the US and the UK with some success. I just thought it might be interesting to know whether this is being offered in the US and if anyone else has experiences or thoughts about it. Thanks and pain free hugs etc to you all Rosie xxxx |
no problem: Abnormal thalamocortical activity in patients with CPRS-1
From Hi (sorry, this has become very long) http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread130082.html
Dear frogga, Sarah Mae, Ali and Allen - Once more, I bow my head to true heroes who have for too long endured the horrors of the worst of RSD or just plain old neuropathic pain (NPP). And congratulations to one and all that retain the intellectual faculties and discipline to get a degree through all of this! (For me, I seem to be “parallel processing” a myriad of tasks into simultaneous incompletion.) But frogga's reference to DBS brings to mind the most important article I've read in years, Abnormal thalamocortical activity in patients with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) Type I, Walton KD, Dubois M, Llinás RR, Pain 2010 Jul;150(1):41-51, Epub 2010 Mar 24 FULL TEXT @ http://www.rsds.org/2/library/articl..._Pain_2010.pdf: Dept. of Physiology & Neuroscience, New York University School of Medicine, 550 First Ave., New York, NY 10016, USA.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20338687 Before going further, I should note that Rodolfo Llinás, the senior and corresponding author, Department Chairman and Professor of Physiology and Neuroscience at the New York University School of Medicine, is widely regarded ''one of the great neuroscientists of the age.'' Listening to the Conversation of Neurons (Scientist at Work: Dr. Rodolfo Llinas), Philip J. Hilts, New York Times, May 27, 1997 http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/27/sc...f-neurons.html: ''We think about the brain differently as a result of him,'' Dr. [Roger] Traub , a neuroscientist at I.B.M.'s laboratories in Yorktown Heights, N.Y., said. ''Some people do beautiful cell work in the laboratory. Others are great thinker-types. There are not many people who do both, and Llinas is one.''And that was before Dr. Llinás delivered his seminal paper on thalamo-cortical oscillations before the annual meeting of The Society for Neuroscience in October, 1999. New Way Of Looking At Diseases Of the Brain, Sandra Blakeslee, New York Times, October 26, 1999 http://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/26/sc...the-brain.html Because of the beautiful manner in which the theory is explained in lay terms, I cannot recommend the article highly enough, where “Abnormal thalamocortical activity in patients with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) Type I” can be tough sledding in places. And A Pro Pos of frogga’s wait-list for DBS, the NYT article concludes with the following: All these disorders might be treated by implanting electrodes into the thalamus to break the abnormal oscillation patterns, Dr. Llinas said. In fact, the most effective treatment for Parkinson's patients who do not respond to drug therapy involves putting electrodes directly into the thalamus. ''This breaks the abnormal disconnection and the person immediately gets better,'' Dr. Llinas said. ''But you have to keep the electrode in. It's like a pacemaker.'' Similar surgeries have been tried successfully for chronic pain and depression. In each case, the electrode is targeted on only a few thousand cells. Presumably, the NY Times article was based upon the October 21, 1999 paper published (with a considerable amount of math) as Thalamocortical dysrhythmia: A neurological and neuropsychiatric syndrome characterized by magnetoencephalography, Llinás RR, Ribary U, Jeanmonod D, Kronberg E, Mitra PP, Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1999 Dec 21; 96(26):15222-7 FULL TEXT @ http://www.pnas.org/content/96/26/15222.full.pdf Department of Physiology, New York University School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10611366 (Cited by an astoundingly high 35 PubMed Central articles.) But where it gets cool, is that Dr. Llinás isn’t necessarily speaking in terms of the implantation of electrodes through conventional neurosurgery. See, Transcript, “Enter the 'i of the vortex'” with neuroscientist Rodolfo - Llinás [The Science Studio] April 17, 2007, from the apparently uncopyrighted transcript of an interview which is itself designed to be freely linked to any website, http://thesciencenetwork.org/program...-of-the-vortex: BINGHAM: What about this new work you’ve been doing, using… Can you explain this new work you’ve been doing using nanowires? “Nano” of course is very much a buzz phrase and perhaps you could explain that we’re just talking about extremely small technology here and how it works and so on?http://thesciencenetwork.org/media/v...Transcript.pdf Side note to Rosie: I strongly recommend that you watch the full 1 hr. 12 min. interview. Llinás begins with a central thesis ”If our cells [acting as effectors] don’t feel, then we won’t,” before launching into this wonderful description of the fourth year of his life, spent upon invitation in the home of his widowed Columbian grandfather, a professor of psychiatry-neurology, which remembered “every millisecond of it. Really.” It was not for nothing that the introduction to the Colombian edition of I of the Vortex: From Neurons to Self (2002) was written by Gabriel Garcia Marquez! In fact, immediately after noting how lucky he was to have attended a high school where members if the faculty were among the leading European academics of their time – who had fled WWII – and who taught concepts instead of facts, he ticks off a number of salient points, how electrical stimulation removes dystonia and that “the mind is soluble in local anesthetic.” Then too, the interview is just so filled with so much brilliant stuff I would be a bore in trying to repeat it. Viz., volition is what is already happening somewhere else in the brain and taking possession of it; “free will is knowing what you are going to do, that’s all. Not necessarily willing it.” (A point further developed in The 'prediction imperative' as the basis for self-awareness, Llinás RR, Roy S, Philos Trans R Soc Lond B Biol Sci. 2009 May 12; 364(1521):1301-7, FULL TEXT @ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...tb20080309.pdf) And, the more we learn about what we are, the more we will find others interesting and likeable. Trust me: there is amazing stuff in there. The central thrust of “Abnormal thalamocortical activity in patients with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) Type I” http://www.rsds.org/2/library/articl..._Pain_2010.pdf is captured for our purpose in the “Discussion” at pp. 8 – 10 of the Epub. For anyone who is at all familiar with the current medical literature on CRPS, it is disappointing to realize how little if any of the EEG literature is apparently followed by those academic neuroscientists and neurologists specializing in either CRPS or NPP. A point made in the opening sentences to the accompanying Commentary, Thalamocortical dysrhythmia and chronic pain, Jones EG, Pain 2010 Jul; 150(1):4-5. Epub 2010 Apr 14: The paper by Walton et al. [13] in this issue of Pain brings a new perspective to the problem of central pain, in this case complex regional pain syndrome without peripheral nerve injury (CRPSI). It is a perspective that may have escaped the notice of many pain scientists and sensory physiologists. (See, e.g., Brief, low frequency stimulation of rat peripheral C-fibres evokes prolonged microglial-induced central sensitization in adults but not in neonates, Hathway GJ, Vega-Avelaira D, Moss A, Ingram R, Fitzgerald M, Pain 2009;110-118, FULL TEXT @ http://www.rsds.org/2/library/articl...J_Pain2009.pdf and Treatment of CRPS with ECT, Wolanin MW, Gulevski V, Schwartzman R, Pain Phys. 2007; 10:573-578, FULL TEXT @ http://www.rsds.org/2/library/articl...chwartzman.pdf) Check out the following excerpts from the Discussion section of “Abnormal thalamocortical activity in patients with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) Type I” and their associated footnotes, which among other things, make the heretofore “unknown mechanism” by which electrical stimulation alleviates chronic pain all too apparent: Our finding of somatosensory activity corresponding to the reported region of spontaneous pain is consistent with such localization in evoked pain studies (see [71]). However, domination by low frequency activity (Figs. 3A and 4) suggests that these neurons do not participate directly in pain localization. Rather, these neurons induce increased activity in adjacent cortical regions through an edge effect [37,39]. A reduction in the normal lateral inhibition would force adjacent cortical areas into spontaneous and protracted high frequency oscillations resulting in a constantly present sensation. This interpretation is consistent with MEG [30,43] and EEG [60] studies of patients with unilateral CRPS I showing that the CNS signal evoked by sensory stimulation of the affected limb is greater than that evoked by simulation of the unaffected limb. Changes of S1 are also seen in other types of NPP [13,14,45,74]. Pain localization is provided by such somatosensory activation while the emotional component is provided by activity in limbic regions.† Fields of Forel is an area in a deep part of the brain known as the diencephalon. It is below the thalamus and consists of three defined, white matter areas of the subthalamus. These three regions are named "H fields" (for Haubenfelder). The first, field H1, is the thalamic fasciculus, a horizontal white matter tract between the subthalamus and the thalamus. These fibers are projections to the thalamus from the basal ganglia (globus pallidus) and the cerebellum. H1 is separated from H2 by the zona incerta. Field H2 is also made up of projections from the pallidum to the thalamus, but these course the subthalamic nucleus (dorsal). Field H3 (aka the prerubral field), is a large zone of mixed gray and white matter located just rostral (In front) of the red nucleus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fields_of_forel ‡ Limited neocortical removal. Presurgical strategies and epilepsy surgery in children: comparison of literature and personal experiences, Munari C, Lo Russo G, Minotti L, et al, Childs Nerv Syst. 1999 Apr;15(4):149-57 NotesIf anyone wants to acknowledge some frustration that two sides of the same “Dept. of Neurology brain” have not been communicating for the last two decades or so, this may be the time to do so. Mike |
Transmagnetic Stimuliation
Quote:
At least in Los Angeles, the problem with TMS (sometimes, "rTMS") is that the one doctor I know of who is using TMS for CRPS promises only that 70% of patients receiving a month-long series will have a 50% reduction in pain lasting on average 14 months; I was quoted better odds on a 5-day in-patient Lidocaine infusion that did nothing for me. More to the point, however, I was specifically advised by his office chief administrator that the doctor set up his focusing software around a brain CT exam, one that would have to be repeated every 14 months to stay with the program. And I'm simply not interested in receiving over 400x the radiation of a chest x-ray every 14 months, just for one procedure. And that assumes that the CT machine is correctly calibrated in the first place! Don't know if you heard about it in the UK, but there has been a scandal in the US over the last few months with revelations of patients being over-radiated, sometimes up to 7x the recommended dose, which would work out to something in excess of 2,800 chest x-rays! And this didn't happen at schlock hospitals either, in fact one of the biggest offenders is widely regarded as not only the best, but the largest private non-profit hospitals in Los Angeles. See, The Radiation Boom: After Stroke Scans, Patients Face Serious Health Risks, Walt Bogdanich, The New York Times, July 31, 2010, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/he...walt_bogdanich And for a related NYT 10:30 video, "Hidden Danger," discussing among other things the "confidentiality" of radiation overdoses under New York law, on account of which the patient is not necessarily notified of any error on his/her account - although not dealing with CT overdoses as such - check out http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/...walt_bogdanich So, as long as a brain CT is used to determine the point of focus for TMS - as opposed to an fMRI which should be much more productive - thanks, but no thanks. Mike |
PS to my last
I was a little sloppy when I said that the LA pain doc. requires a brain CT scan to position the TMS. It's actually more of a functional CT scan, specifically a hybrid imaging of positron emission tomography (PET) together with a CT scan.
That said, not only is a combined PET/CT apparently less effective on the whole in studying brain tissue than would be an fMRI,** but the radiation output of a PET/CT scan appears to be somewhat higher that a stand alone CT. See, e.g., Estimated cumulative radiation dose from PET/CT in children with malignancies: a 5-year retrospective review, Chawla SC, Federman N, Zhang D, Nagata K, Nuthakki S, McNitt-Gray M, Boechat MI, Pediatr Radiol. 2010 May;40(5):681-6. Epub 2009 Dec 5, FULL TEXT @ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...ticle_1434.pdf Department of Radiology, Olive View-UCLA Medical Center, 14445 Olive View Drive, 2 D115, Sylmar, CA, USA. chawlasoni@gmail.comhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19967534 ** See, PET/CT: form and function, Blodgett TM, Meltzer CC, Townsend DW, Radiology 2007 Feb;242(2):360-85 at 365, FULL TEXT @ http://radiology.rsna.org/content/242/2/360.full.pdf: It is unclear what the role of hardware-based PET/CT is in the brain. CT has a limited role in the evaluation of this organ; MR imaging often provides more detail, as well as more useful information. As tracers become more specific and result in less background uptake, it will be more important to have accurately coregistered PET and CT images. At the University of Pittsburgh, all patients referred because of neurologic indications are still examined with a dedicated PET scanner rather than with a PET/CT scanner. |
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