NeuroTalk Support Groups - Chronic fatigue or what????

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Chronic fatigue or what????

I m nearly 40 suffered alone with this condition - the only description I call it is chronic fatigue. Only recently I got the G.P to refer me to the Chronic Fatigue service in Leeds, U.K for assessment but the shrink reckons I don’t have C.F.S/M.E. I didn’t think I did, as the precursor seems to be normal health - viral infection - C.F.S/M.E. My symptoms have been with me for as far back as I can remember into childhood: Chronic Fatigue, Memory, poor concentration, lack of energy for exercise, and over the years total lack of sex drive, chronic weight gain and joint and muscle problems. With this is the usual barrage of physiological problems that go with these symptoms. It’s having to cope with the long periods of unemployment, lack of social skills and friends and a partner which doesn’t make me anamoured of life at all. All you get from the medical profession is "we doctors don’t have all the answers" which seems to me to be a cop out!!!. Is anyone else out there suffering similarly that could throw some light on my predicament?.

Hi carter 1144 and welcome to NeuroTalk.

So sorry to hear what you are suffering and sure hope you do find answers here

I have found that when conventional docs do nothing but :Scratch-Head: :Dunno: sometimes alternative doctors have better insight

I had severe but puzzling reactions to pesticide exposure some years back and it was savvy alternative docs who helped restore my health

I'd wonder about depression, or a hormone (endocrine) problem, since you
have been this way since childhood.

Have you had adrenal and thyroid tests? Been tested for depression?

Those are my first thoughts.

Re:Chronic fatigue or what????

This is really chronic fatigue and I suggest you to use B12 patch. All the problems you just told now will be solved with the patch. Just go through Internet to find out more about this patch. The symptoms show that you have deficiency of B12 for sure. Use that patches, it is prescribed by doctor. B-12 Patch is that it is so easy to take! You can look for more information at their site.
Get well soon.

Rose, Mrs. D, Cara--

--take a look at this patch, and the info on the site, for commentary/accuracy, please. (I always want some expert opinion regarding commercial sites!)

I have to say I am a bit skeptical.

It sounds like a good idea. But you know patch technology is very very
tricky. Even experienced patch makers have trouble with them.
(TransDerm scop had to be reformulated, for example).

I looked the the parent company...here is the other product they make:
http://www.migravent.com/

There is a dearth of information on their main website:
http://www.vitasciences.com/about-vita-sciences.html

The "clinical trial" is rather amusing:

Quote:

A small clinical trial was conducted in August 2003. Six volunteers ( 4 male and 2 female between 20-48) had a baseline blood sample. A B-12 Patch was placed behind the ear of each volunteer after the baseline sample was taken.

Not a good study at all! :rolleyes:

This article discusses transdermal drug delivery. It also mentions B12:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=4&gl=us

B12 is water soluble (hydrophilic) and a large molecule...so the patches have
to be very sophisticated to work successfully.

These patches do not require a doctor's order. They are OTC (over the counter). They are also costly... $ 24.00 for 4.
The scientific data on this patch seem skimpy to me. The diagram is
amateurish looking. I could not find anywhere on the site the amount of drug in that patch --- or the statement as to the type of B12 actually in it.
They ALLUDE to methyl being better than cyano--but they don't STATE that methyl is in it.

Being OTC this is not approved by the FDA... I find the wording on the whole
site to be very clever. Compare the patch data of it to the other
link I gave. A very special formulation for water soluble drugs is necessary and no mention of this special technology is made.

The references this company makes to itself are puzzling. They don't make much...2 products to be exact, and I find the inflated text suspicious.

Pharmaceutical drug delivery products are very sophisticated. This website is not.

I'd like to add that B12 injections do not put the drug directly into the blood stream. They are injected IM or sub Q and absorbed that
way.

Here is an interesting study on how easily oral works:

Quote:

Presse Med. 2005 Mar 12;34(5):358-62. Links
[Low vitamin B12 levels in elderly patients cured within one week by oral cobalamin therapy]
[Article in French]

* Kaltenbach G,
* Andres E,
* Barnier-Figue G,
* Noblet-**** M,
* Noel E,
* Vogel T,
* Perrin AE,
* Berthel M.

Centre de gerontologie, Hopital de la Robertsau, Strasbourg. georges.kaltenbach@chru-strasbourg.fr

OBJECTIVE: Non-dissociation of vitamin B12 from its carrying proteins is the most frequent cause of vitamin B12 deficiency in the elderly. The aim of this study was to determine the initial dose of oral cyanocobalamin that would correct the B12 vitamin deficiency within one week. METHODS: This was an open, prospective, study on 30 elderly patients suffering from vitamin deficiency (B12 < 0.20 microg/L) induced by food-cobalamin malabsorption. Ten patients (group I) were treated with a daily dose of 1000 microg of oral cyanocobalamin (from D1 to D8), 10 (group II) with 1000 microg every other day (D1, D3, D5 and D7), 5 (group III) with 1000 microg every 4 days (D1 and D5) and 5 (group IV) with 1000 microg only on D1. The biological response was assessed by control measurement of vitamin B12 serum levels on the 8th day. RESULTS: Mean vitamin B12 serum levels had significantly increased (p < 0.01) in groups I, II and III, but not in group IV. The dose-effect, assessed by the mean increase in vitamin B12 serum levels, was significantly greater (p < 0.05) in groups I (0.25 microg/L) and II (0.18 microg/L), than in groups III and IV (0.09 microg/L). CONCLUSION: This prospective study shows that an oral dose of 1000 microg of cyanocobalamin every 4 days, which corresponds to 250 microg per day, was sufficient to correct B12 vitamin deficiency induced by food-cobalamin malabsorption within one week. However, initial doses of 1000 microg per day or every other day would be preferable because of the greater dose-effect with daily doses higher than 500 microg. A randomised study is warranted to validate these preliminary results.

PMID: 15859569 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

9 cents a day or $2.70 a month compared to $24.99 a month for 4 patches(assuming they work of course). You choose.

I was having all the troubles with being tired all the time, anemic, and just not feeling right. Since then under the advice of Mrs.D and Rose I started the mythyl type of B12 under the tongue and I feel so much better in a very short period of time. I found them at Wild Oats here in town. Not sure of the price but it wasn't bad. Certainly worth every penny. I was using the cyano type at first but once I switched to the mythyl type of B12 I really noticed a difference. I have not needed to take a nap in over 2 weeks now. So listen to the advice you receive here it may make all the difference. ...Sue

I have had low energy my whole life. I always loved to dance and work out. Now I realize that dancing and working out helped to increase my levels of the active form of b6.

You might consider seeing if you match any of the symptoms for pyroluria. A severe b6 and zinc deficiency would cause low energy normally and may cause fatigue when you experience any kind of stress.

The great thing about finding out that you have a condition like pyroluria is that it explains so many things I have experienced my whole life and did not realize that they were really a medically-based problem. I used to have problems with my anger, and anger episodes is a symptom of pyroluria.

Anemia can be about low vitamin b6 levels sometimes. Anemia is one possible symptom of pyroluria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carter1144 (Post 69001)

Just reading your message here, I'd also suggest if I was in same situation that I'd ask to have thyroid tests and liver tests.

All those signs and symptoms could be from so many numerous conditions it wouldn't be wise to list. Do you have sleep problems at all?

I agree that thyroid and various other possibilities should be looked at. And for thyroid to be explored properly, you almost surely need to learn about it and advocate for yourself. Most docs and labs are waaaay behind.

As for the B12 deficiency possibility. There is no way you can rely on B12 deficiency being the cause, or on any type of B12 treatment eliminating the problems.

However, B12 treatment is a very good idea, as it is safe, inexpensive and may be at least part of what you need. Good insurance.

I also am not impressed with the patch. Looks to me like just another slick marketing campaign designed to relieve people of their money.

I would get myself a good brand of oral methylcobalamin and take it in doses of AT LEAST 1000 mcg.

rose