NeuroTalk Support Groups - Musing on calcium & magnesium

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- Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (https://www.neurotalk.org/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/)

- - Musing on calcium & magnesium (https://www.neurotalk.org/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/160330-musing-calcium-magnesium.html)

Musing on calcium & magnesium

Quote:

Botox is a neurotoxin originating from Clostridium botulinum, a gram-positive anaerobic bacteria. It inhibits calcium-dependent acetylcholine release from presynaptic nerve endings at the neuromuscular endplate, ...

Injecting Botox into the scalene muscles, therefore, can relax those muscles and relieve symptoms. ...

Fourteen of the 22 patients (64%) who received Botox reported at least a 50% decrease in their symptoms ...

Emphasis is mine. The article didn't mention or emphasize calcium in any other way and did not mention magnesium at all. But the "calcium-dependent" thing really caught my attention.

Given that botox has some effectiveness, and that it's mechanism has to do with blocking calcium-dependent acetylcholine, plus all the stuff I mentioned above, I wonder:

Should we TOSers be severely cutting our calcium intake in addition to supplementing with magnesium? Particularly those of us with obvious muscle spasms?

It's a hypothesis. I don't have the resources or right career to turn it into a study. But TOS is hard to treat and we're left looking for whatever we can find that may help.

Btw I'm not implying that "too much Ca & not enough Mg" is the cause of TOS or that correcting such an imbalance will cure it. But muscle spasms are part of the TOS picture for many of us, and I'm proposing that in those cases, it could be a contributing factor and therefore correcting it could be helpful on the road to recovery.

Thoughts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by chroma (Post 821942)

I'm reading another magnesium book ("Transdermal Magnesium Therapy") and in addition to pointing out that most people have a deficiency, it also points out that people have an overabundance of calcium due to various factors:

-- people consume a lot of calcium
-- some foods are fortified with it
-- some people supplement with it
-- the body holds onto calcium easily

Now then, I was reading this paper:

Neurogenic thoracic outlet syndrome: A case report and review of the literature
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2966747/

which says:

Emphasis is mine. The article didn't mention or emphasize calcium in any other way and did not mention magnesium at all. But the "calcium-dependent" thing really caught my attention.

Given that botox has some effectiveness, and that it's mechanism has to do with blocking calcium-dependent acetylcholine, plus all the stuff I mentioned above, I wonder:

Should we TOSers be severely cutting our calcium intake in addition to supplementing with magnesium? Particularly those of us with obvious muscle spasms?

It's a hypothesis. I don't have the resources or right career to turn it into a study. But TOS is hard to treat and we're left looking for whatever we can find that may help.

Btw I'm not implying that "too much Ca & not enough Mg" is the cause of TOS or that correcting such an imbalance will cure it. But muscle spasms are part of the TOS picture for many of us, and I'm proposing that in those cases, it could be a contributing factor and therefore correcting it could be helpful on the road to recovery.

Thoughts?

Good theory Chroma.:cool:
I've funnily enough just got in some Magnesium and starting to supplement with it as from TODAY ( 1st time)........hope it makes a difference with the muscle spasms.:winky:

calcium-dependent acetylcholine =/ calcium

My Dr advised me to take VitD along with Magnesium the two together makes it easier for your system to absorb the Vitamins

This is my magnesium thread:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread1138.html

Magnesium oxide does not work so please read labels carefully.
In mixtures listing several types, if magnesium oxide is listed,
assume the majority is it. It is very inexpensive and still used
in supplements that have more than one ingredient.

My thread explains doses, and gives options.

Magnesium is lost in the urine in diabetics, and also people who use caffeine and alcohol. Some drugs deplete it also, diuretics for example. If you use an acid blocking drug regularly, the reduced acid in the stomach impacts magnesium's ability to be
absorbed. Add to that poor diet, and that is why magnesium is
low in about 70% of the US population!

I've experimented with calcium, magnesium, and many other supplements and diets over the years. I can't say that I've ever found anything that was helpful.

i think im still recovering from my stupid mag deficiency. when i was severely deficient i felt like i was going to faint ALL the time. i still feel like that sometimes. im eating pretty healthy now and i still feel like crap. just a little less crappy. from my experience mag helped with excessive burning sensations and jaw pain

the take away from me is most of us eat like ****. dont eat too much of anything.

when i had serum mag of 2.2+ my tos did go away for a few days but the rest of my body was messed up

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD38 (Post 821953)

Good theory Chroma.:cool:
I've funnily enough just got in some Magnesium and starting to supplement with it as from TODAY ( 1st time)........hope it makes a difference with the muscle spasms.:winky:

It's made a difference in mine. I started the Mg about a month ago, I think. It can take some time for it to correct, so give it a chance.

I'm using both internal (Mg citrate capsules) and external (transdermal Mg sulfate). I have experienced that rubbing the transdermal into problem spots helps.

I just hadn't thought much about the Ca aspect before seeing that little mention of it in the article.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsD (Post 821984)

This is my magnesium thread:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread1138.html

Thanks. Looks like I'll be giving the Mg malate form a try now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chroma (Post 821942)

Hmmm this is very funny you metnion this cause my mom and dad told me a while ago as soon as i started having problems my dad told me stopp taking any kind of calcium.

But the only problem is I cant find a magnesium suppliment that doesnt have calcium in it aswell?