Histamine reactions and PN:
 

From time to time people visit here and may be having food intolerance reactions. Some of these reactions may be due to histamine excess in the body. Normally the body removes excess histamine, but not always.

Histamine is a biogenic amine, it dilates blood vessels, increases circulation to the skin and muscles, is also a neurotransmitter in the brain, which is thought to be a precursor to stimulate the release of other neurotransmitters. This gets pretty complex, so unless people really want more info I won't search it all down again. I used to have a histamine thread on our old home online in the past. Back then I found some links to ADHD and impulsive disorders.(these kids can have common food intolerances) But I do see histamine as a culprit at least for myself sometimes from food.

There are two major histamine blocking families of drugs. One are antihistamines, used for allergies. Some of them, the older ones like Benadryl and Atarax, are fat soluble and enter the brain. The newer ones like Claritin and Allegra are less potent and have little if any brain effects. (hence no drowsiness).
The second type of histamine blocker is the H2 antagonist drug family, which were the first acid blocker drugs offered for ulcer treatment. Zantac, Pepcid, and Tagamet (the most potent), are examples.

Often when people have severe food or drug reactions both families are prescribed as treatments. Also for some preventive
treatments for MRIs and CAT scans that use dyes that are allergenic, both families can be given before the tests.

I read on this forum some posts that suggest to me a consumption of a trigger food(s) that might be giving burning, tingling or other PN type symptoms. So I post lists of histamine releasing foods, or foods high in histamine on those posts.

Yesterday Swanson's supplement company sent out the recent monthly catalog (which is really really large), and featured was this topic.

They are promoting a new supplement that is supposed to deactivate histamine in the GI tract before it goes systemic into the body. It is called Daosin.

Let me say now, I have not tried this, but I just might very soon.
I have flushing from certain foods, and Hubby has lots of runny nose issues that come and go.

This is a link to the website of the primary scientist, Dr. Janice Joneja, on their website:
http://www.allergynutrition.com/reso...ntolerance.pdf

It is complex, and I'll have to read it further several times, but I thought to put it up now for anyone interested.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/healt...upplement.html

I cannot endorse this yet, but I am very sure I will try this and get Hubby to try also. He seems to have more issues with it than I do. Mine are more burning, his are more nasal.

I might even give it to my cat, who has mast cell (hence histamine secreting) tumors. As far as I can tell this supplement only works in the GI tract to inactivate food histamines.

Here is a blog discussing the topic and also giving supplement suggestions to help deal with high histamine:

http://histamino.wordpress.com/tag/daosin/

There is also another product similar, but far more expensive:
Histame:

http://www.amazon.com/Histame-Food-I...3263318&sr=8-1

Histame also more expensive at iherb.com:
http://www.iherb.com/Search?kw=Histame

Swanson's product is about 1/2 this price.
The active ingredient strength is about the same.

More on histamine:

http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks...histamine.html

bumping this up with a very good site explaining histamine reactions and food:

http://diagnosisdiet.com/histamine-intolerance/

Did you ever try this, MrsD?



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No I never did. Tomatoes really set both hubby and me off.

Peppers and hot spices also bother me... once I figured that out and avoided them, things got better.

But the histamine reactions are very noticeable... Both my son and I had a big one to a perch lunch on vacation not too long ago... burning feet by 4pm.
This indicates old fish. My son does not have a PN that I am aware of.

Thanks a million for this....I've seen the iherb thing before and forgot about it...but I am helping someone with food issues and even though there are some environmental concerns as well, I think if we can control the food ones then there would be more tolerance of the perfumes etc...
I feel that all this can be overwhelming so thank goodness for help like this...thanks for sharing....:grouphug:

I second the thanks for all this. I've thought I've had a histamine problem for awhile, and even purchased Histame a few years (no luck with it for the problem I tried it for), but I'm trying to figure out if something other than food cause trigger it.

Wow. I bought some really good aged blue cheese. I think it may not be good for me. Talk about flaring. :eek:

All one has to do is try some real niacin and get the flush.

That flush can be so like some PN symptoms. Stinging, burning, you name it!

I just read about a HISTAMINE cream!
Australian Dream Cream!

Here is a wiki on it too: used for leukemia patients.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine_dihydrochloride

Believe it or not, I just ran up to Walgreens to get some benadryl and saw Australian Dream Cream on the shelf. I wish I had picked it up and looked at it.

I really think I need to try some daosin. What I dealt with last night was beyond normal and ridiculous. It had to be a reaction of some type.

And MrsD, I think it was you who at one point talked about slapping a lidocaine patch or putting cream on the back of your knee. I put a patch on the back of my left knee last night, and it really, really calmed my left leg down. It was vibrating stronger than I've ever felt it. So thanks for that! :hug:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23494529


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Yes, that is interesting... I've always suspected histamine in the periphery...given my reactions at times to food.

What is concerning however, is the new information on
diphenhydramine (and other H1 histamine blockers of the first generation)...causing increased Alzheimer's -- I guess their central action in the brain, is the culprit?

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/c...k-201501287667

So I suppose using Benadryl as a cream would be better than oral...???

I suspect that vibrational/buzzing feelings are symptoms of compressions. I have accidently induced a major vibration by putting the wrong pole of a very strong neodymium magnet behind my knee once. Flipping it over to the other pole, stopped the whole vibration event!

Interesting. Had not heard that.

Benadryl is not a good all around solution for me as it makes me loopy as all get-out. I can only take it at night, and even then, I'm in a "benadryl coma" the next day. It has a profound effect on me, and I try to use it very sparingly.

I've been looking into histamine-rich foods, and wouldn't know they're pretty much a mainstay of my diet right now.

http://histame.com/histamine-rich-foods-substances

http://www.foodsmatter.com/allergy_i...ne_joneja.html

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janieg, I see you take grape seed ex and I was going to mention it since it does reduce histimines, it's anti histimine, anti fungal, anti bacterial properties in this OPC. Maybe consider taking 250mg a couple times a day and see if you can get results. I take at least 400mg grape seed ex daily, one of my products is Muscadine grape seed from vitacost and it is 500mg cap...I take it daily and 200mg grape seed Extract cap too.

I realize I don't have all the PN issues so many of you talk about but grape seed ex has been a life changer for me in so many ways. I know when I had a couple bouts of edema from a couple things, I upped grape seed ex to 600mg or more daily and got rid of edema...so I know it's so effective for so many issues. And much is still unknown but more info comes out all the time as I find a lot of info. C

Thanks, Caroline...I'll give it a shot.

I've also ordered Swanson's Daosin product to see if it helps any.

If I do have a histamine problem going, it would explain a lot. In the months preceding my SFN acute onset, really weird things were happening. I've never had any food allergies or reactions in my life, and all the sudden, I had a horrible reaction after eating scallops. I got congested, was hacking and wheezing, and broke out in hives on my torso. This was right after I had torn up my digestive tract with iron supplements and felt like I had kerosene running through my gut. I just assumed my digestive system was in tizzy as it hasn't happened since, but I still have lingering weirdness that seems to have some dietary connection.

Gosh, I miss the days of having a normal body.

I really don't want to go down this road, but...

I found this blog dedicated to the link between menopause and histamine intolerance.

https://themenopausehistamineconnection.wordpress.com/

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I am totally miserable. My neck and face are covered in hives. I have been over reacting to heat since the onset of this darn disease.

I spent the whole day researching supplements.

Here is what I ordered today:

Histimine Block by Seeking Health

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o02_s00

Quercetin Phytosome by Throne Research

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o00_s00

And I might purchase this:

Moducare by Throne Research

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2EJCTH67GJMT3

I'll also be avoiding foods on this list:

http://chriskresser.com/headaches-hi...-be-the-cause/

I'm definitely open to suggestions!

Sorry to hear this MG. Hope something helps. I noticed no difference with daosin I bought, but I still have no clue why the blue cheese affected me so badly. I'll have to try it again while I'm in a lull.

I don't want to think about how much money I've spent on supplements through all this, but I keep trying. Thankfully I just got a new job that will help fund my experimentation better. :rolleyes:

My face is so scary today that I worked from home. This is awful!!!!!

And congrats on the new job!

Another good link about Histamine Intolerance.
http://www.amymyersmd.com/2013/10/ev...e-intolerance/

Oddly enough it was my birthday the other day and my wife said, I don't care what this is gonna do to your nerves have a small scoop of Ice Cream tonight! You have to at least have something bad on your birthday! So, I did. I also decided to take a benadryl while no one was looking in anticipation of what was coming after reading these studies posted here. Normally Ice Cream would've had me up all night in buzzing burning pain (and no, i am not a diabetic). After the Benadryl i had almost no pain that night. I was of course tired as heck! I apted to not take my nightly gabapentin because the benadryl basically seemed to take care of the pain and give me the same groggy reaction. I can't see taking something like Benadryl on a daily basis (especially seeing it can cause low DAO), but in my case it definitely supports the connection of histamine and nerve pain/inflammation.

Five years later, an allergist/immunologist is looking at my histamine levels as my potential problem. Sigh.

I want to post this information here in case it should ever help anyone.

From Histamine - Wikipedia

"Once formed, histamine is either stored or rapidly inactivated by its primary degradative enzymes, histamine-N-methyltransferase(HNMT) or diamine oxidase(DAO). In the central nervous system, histamine released into the synapses is primarily broken down by histamine-N-methyltransferase, while in other tissues both enzymes may play a role. Several other enzymes, including MAO-B and ALDH2, further process the immediate metabolites of histamine for excretion or recycling."

I believe low levels of HNMT is a contributing factor in my neuropathy. DAO supplements don't appear to help at all. These two SNPs on the HNMT gene have been documented as resulting in reduced levels of HNMT, and thus a reduced ability of breaking down of histamine that could impact proper functioning of the CNS:

rs1050891 - A/A is normal, I'm A/G
rs11558538 - CC is normal, I'm C/T (C314T Thr105Ile)

Both are tested on 23andme, although the second isn't available by SNP name. (Ping me for more information.)

The immunologist who diagnosed currently has me on Zyrtec once a day and 40 mg of famotidine (Pepcid AC) twice a day to try to get my histamine levels down. My plasma histamine level was high in the blood test he ran.

I'm also on a low histamine diet which has helped bring them down as well. one or both actions has pulled me out of a terrible flare I was in caused by three consectutive days on high histamine food consumption. It was so bad that I actually did have a classic allergic reaction. That's what caused me to make an appointment with an allergist/immunologist. I knew it had to be a clue.

I was very fortunate that this doc whose office is two miles from my house is well-versed in Histamine Intolerance and Mast Cell Activiation problems. Not all are.

I continue to learn about my condition and determine the "triggers" that cause me to flare and turn into a ball of fire.

Quercetin with bromelain appears to be one of the most helpful supplements as it's a natural antihistamine. I'm also taking palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) with luteolin for its mast cell stabilization properties.

(PDF) New Insights in Mast Cell Modulation by Palmitoylethanolamide

Overall, I'm feeling much better and am doing a decent job of keeping the flares to a minimum. It's a learning process, though, as you have to figure out your triggers, and they're not always consistent. For example, you can make a recipe one day that doesn't affect you, but the next time, it does. The freshness of the meat comes into play, and that can obviously a big unknown.

I so wish MrsD were still around. I think of her often and hope she's doing ok.

:grouphug:

As I continue to peel back the layers of the onion of my long-standing neuropathy issues (since 2013), I feel like I'm getting closer and wanted to share.

The new medical malady that sent me down this path was the incidental discovery of a 9 mm kidney stone. I'm 59 and have never had kidney stone problems before, so this is a "new feature" that would seem to go hand-in-hand with the idiopathic neuropathy that hit me later in life. The stone has sent me down another rabbit hole as I learn why stones are formed.

Long story short, I am now looking a food sensitivity as being the root cause of my issues. I've been on a "clean" diet for many years now. I eat very little processed food that is predominantly plant-based with lots and lots of fresh fruits and vegetables. That's all well and good, unless you have a sensitivity to oxalates or salicylates which are abundant in those foods. And I've learned having histamine problems seem to go hand-in-hand with these sensitivities.

I believe it's likely that an insult I took to my gut right before my neuropathy started may have led to dysfunction in its ability to process one (or both) of these substances. If your gut can't get rid of them properly, they can wreak havoc in your system. I do have some functional medicine test results that are supporting the idea that salicylates, in particular, may be my problem.

The one thing I really wanted to mention is something that I read on these forums very early on that may have hinted at the nature of my issues. My discomfort from my neuro symptoms gets worse as the day goes on, so they're at their mildest in the morning when I wake up. I remember several people here on the forums saying it was the same with them, so I really didn't think anything more of it. "That's just the way neuropathy works" was my thinking. Now I'm realizing that the longer I fast when I first wake up, the longer my symptoms remain mild, and what I put in my mouth is likely involved.

So obviously I'm now setting about making dietary adjustments to see if I can make a difference. Just thought I'd pass this on, as I don't think neurological symptoms are a common manifestation of this problem. Tinnitus is, which I do have, but not the crazy sensory and neuropathic issues.

Ouch on that kidney stone. I hope that's all dealt with now.
I've followed along with your posts. I wonder if you think some sort of cortisol dysregulation is occurring due to a possible salicylate sensitivity?

Just an aside - Salicylate sensitivity is not uncommon in the autism community as I've found from my own experience. I haven't checked some of the claims in the article but it was interesting reading. Again, personal experience, but I've not known anyone on spectrum who didn't have some type of gut issue and inflammatory condition.
Autism and Mast Cell Activation Syndrome

Ran out of time earlier, just wanted to add a couple of things. My daughter and I eat the same type of diet as you by the sound of it. Eating and cooking plant based food is just routine now, but I don't want to be eating foods that can end up harming us either. Daughter only has one kidney so she can do without those issues so we'll certainly look into this further.

Myself, my neuropathy came on after a very short time on a melanoma treatment called Targeted Therapy which attacks mutations (BRAF) within cancer cells. It was a failure and it started my neuropathy. To this point I've never been able to notice whether any particular foods, or lack of, affect me or not. I do notice certain medications cause flares though so I avoid all medications if at all possible.

Thanks for the response, Lara. It's been quite a journey. Sorry to hear about your neuropathy and bout with melanoma. Is the latter still ongoing?

Who would have thought spinach and broccoli could be bad for you?

I think cortisol/adrenaline dysregulation is quite likely.

Thanks for the link. I have a tentative MCAS diagnosis by one of the allergists/immunologists mentioned in that sites list of doctors, but his words to me were, "Yes, I think you have it, but I can't tell you why." His only suggestion was to take H1 and H2 antihistamines and go the functional medicine route. I've tried two FM docs, and neither was a good experience.

I need to do a strict elimination diet I think, and may try to find someone to help me with that. The "lists" on what foods are high in what are all over the place.

The connection of MCAS and/or oxalates with autism seems strong. There's a woman named Susan Owens (if you've not encountered her) who strongly believes that not only is autism caused by oxalates, but she throws Alzheimer's, MS, and Parkinson's into the mix too. She believes the widespread use of antibiotics and pesticides has caused microbiome damage leading to the rise in all the neurological disorders.

Interesting theory.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, still dealing with it. Diagnosed at stage 3 and quickly to stage 4 so didn't stand much of a chance but out of the blue I became eligible for a medication that has had quite remarkable results. It's tedious but I am at the moment disease free. I always fear it lurking there though that's apparently a "normal" fear I've been told lol. I'll always be stage 4 and probably always have to take this medication (by infusion). It's one of those situations where you take the drug until it causes too many severe side effects or it stops working. So far so good for me. Others have not been so fortunate which brings me back to the gut microbiome...

Interesting thing about the treatment that I take (PD-1 checkpoint inhibitor pembrolizumab) - I responded immediately to the treatment I'm on and seriously think it is due to my diet and gut health.

Diet and Probiotics Influence Response to Immunotherapy - Cancer HealthYes, I know of Susan Owens and the Oxalate Project. The link below talks about Chondroitin sulfate to prevent kidney stones.
https://www.realizehealth.com.au/wp-...T-Oxalates.pdf

It's a hard one. All those foods on the list. All the different subsets. When my children were younger of course it was Feingold making the news and then the lactose connection and the ongoing candida etc.. It goes on and on.

The good thing for you though may be if you have a connection with salicylate and or oxalate sensitivity then you can, with work, eventually heal and your flares can stop or is that being too simplistic?? I guess it's the ongoing hunt for the reason that is so tedious and expensive I would image. Sorry about your bad experiences with the two other doctors. You really need someone to work through it all with you especialy if you're doing elimination diets.

Let us know how you're doing.

Histamines, covid vaccine reactions, and anti-histamines
 

I had interesting long conversation with the Pharmacist in oncology day unit here and she'd just recently transferred from a very large teaching hospital in the State's capital. So, basically she knew wayyyy more than anyone else in my area about my particular Immunotherapy treatment and how it related/caused the amplification and severity of the recent side effects that I had from my first covid vaccine [AstraZeneca or Vaxzevria as it's now called), especially the unbelievable itching that came on before the increase in neuropathy pain.

Essentially she understood that majority of my more severe side-effects were most probably histamine related and exacerbated by my Immunotherapy. The plan agreed upon by my treating professionals is to now take the antihistamines for some days prior to the second vaccine and then daily afterwards as needed to prevent this happening again.

Crossing fingers.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

So glad you were eligible for that new treatment!!! Disease-free is amazing. Very happy for you.

That was definitely an interesting conversation you had with the pharmacist. Which antihistamine are you going to take? I'm taking Zyrtec daily now, but all it does is keep the histamine away from my H1 receptors. Since my CNS is getting hit, I think that means my H3 receptors are the ones absorbing it all.

Thankyou!
Well, I would usually just have Claritin (loratadine) nearby because I have had a Tick Anaphylaxis and always need to be prepared. I was told a few weeks ago, when talking about the vaccine reaction, to change this to Telfast 180mg (fexofenadine) which I think may be called Allegra in the US. It's supposed to work faster as well.

I read so much about all the different newer generation antihistamines that it boggled my mind and never did figure out which one would be the best. These are the non-sedating ones mind you. After reading your message I looked into H3 receptors and came across something called Pitolisant that's used to treat narcolepsy. You would understand all the technical papers better than me. I just kept getting confused.

from British Journal of Pharmacology Feb 2020
Histamine, histamine receptors, and neuropathic pain relief

take care there