B 12 analogues and B 12 and D deficiency
 

Hi there! I'm a new member and very confused. I'm 60 and my B 12 serum level is 49. I'm in a foreign country and it's hard to find an english-speaking doctor. My GP is struggling. I have some questions, please.

If B 12 is water-soluble, how is it stored in the liver?
Are our natural sources of Vitamin B 12 becoming deficient?
What are inactive B12 analogues and are they a problem?
Are commercially produced B 12 supplements actually analogues?
(‘A significant percentage of the activity in 'B-12 enriched' foods are inactive analogs’ and some multivitamin preparations containing vitamins B1, B3, C, and E, and copper and iron contain inactive B12 analogues’.)
Are bacterial colonies in the stomach that produce analogues of vitamin B-12, which can accelerate or promote B-12 deficiency, increasing?
Are we excreting too much B 12 for some reason? Has our recycling system broken down?
_____________________________________

Vitamin B 12 Analogues: some notes
The few plant foods that are sources of B12 are actually B12 analogs. An analog is a substance that blocks the uptake of true B12, so your body's need for the nutrient actually increases.
I find out Methylcobalamin, the supplement I am taking, is a vitamin B12 analog, and yet this is the supplement which is most highly recommended.
The origin of cobalamin (vitamin B12) analogues in animal chows and animal and human blood and tissues is unknown.
The most commonly used supplement, cyanocobalamin, is rather unstable and may form cobalamin analogues that interfere with normal cobalamin metabolism and transport.
Changes in cobalamin metabolism are associated with the altered methionine auxotrophy of high growth autonomous human melanoma cells.
It is thought vitamin B12 may exert a direct influence on melatonin. ‘Your skin produces vitamin D when it is exposed to proper levels of ultraviolet light. Melatonin in the skin blocks UV light, so people with dark skin need more exposure than light-skinned individuals’. Problems with B 12 and D are associated with Fibromylagia. People with MS tend to be lower in B12 and vitamin D.

Does the current widespread Vitamin D deficiency have anything to with these bio-unavailable analogues of B 12? My D is well down, @ 18, when it should be 50. My B 12 is 49.

It appears humans can only access Vitamin B 12 by eating other creatures: humans can’t source it directly from nature or make it themselves. At the risk of sounding a complete fool, creatures differ considerably from each other: surely the digestive processes of fish, insects and sheep are not the same. At what stage in the food-chain do we find edible creatures with Vitamin B 12 that is bio-available to humans? And if there is no commonality amongst them, what is the first creature in the chain? And are there 2 different food chains, land-based and sea-based? I am wholly confused.

Sorry to sound so silly. I am REALLY confused.

Great to meet you!!
 

Numabiena,

:Wave-Hello: It is great to have you come and be with us. You will fine a great number of dear friends to listen when you are in need of ears. Please, just let us know how we can help you out. You will find out we are supportive and relaxing place.

Click onto the following forum, there you will be able find some answers:

Vitamins, Nutrients, Herbs and Supplements:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum49.html

Please keep us up to date on your condition. Again welcome, looking forward to seeing you around. My thoughts and prayers are with you. :smileypray:


:hug:

Welcome to NeuroTalk:

We have a B12 thread here with links and explanations:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread85103.html

Basically the subject is not that difficult. However, websites that tend to be Vegan oriented, or SELL something can have confusing language. There are sites on the Web that claim you don't have to take B12 if you are a Vegan. And that is just not true. Going into biochemical details, however, is much more complex, as the following links will illustrate.

Can you tell me what sites you got the quotes from?
Our guidelines do not allow for quoting directly from sites, without giving attribution. This is because of copyright laws.
If your statements are paraphrased, then that is okay.

I see one glaring error, about Melatonin.
This link explains what melatonin does in the skin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18155917
And what melatonin is:
http://www.uthscsa.edu/mission/spring95/brainmel.html

Melatonin is different from melanin. Melanin is what imparts the degree of pigmentation to the skin. It is genetically determined and can increase to some extent with UV light exposure. This article explains
the process of tanning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_tanning

Melatonin is completely different. It is a hormone and we are finding today, it is present in many tissues of the body. For example it is in the pancreas and the retina of the eye. It is typically an antioxidant, and also works to maintain our Circadian rhythms, called Biorhythms.(Day/night physiology).
Melatonin in the brain is made from serotonin which is a neurotransmitter, and the cofactor used is methylcobalamin (B12).

This article explains the types of cobalamin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12

The word analogue is rather outdated.
In chemistry the word analog is this:
Chemistry: A structural derivative of a parent compound that often differs from it by a single element.

In biochemistry an analog may be physiologically active or not in living organisms. Cyanocobalamin is a synthetic form of cobalamin that is an analog (some use the term vitamer) of biologically active forms. It is not active in the body until it undergoes conversion, to active forms.
Those are listed in the Wiki article I gave you.

Methylcobalamin is a biologically active form in humans.

Most commercial products containing many vitamins in mixtures use cyanocobalamin for the B12. Technically this is not biologically active, until the body changes it to a more suitable form. This is changing but slowly in some mixtures today and a few do now use methylcobalamin.

I have not found a description of how B12 is stored in the liver.
But it is. We inherited this because of our hunter gatherer lifestyles during evolution. Because food was seasonal and not always available, storage was needed for humans to survive famines.

For your B12 to be so low:
1) you were not eating animal sourced foods OR
2) you have damaged parietal cells in the stomach that make intrinsic factor to transport the microgram amounts of B12 from food into the blood stream from foods OR
3) you take drugs that impair B12 absorption, like metformin or acid blocking drugs for the heartburn/GERD-- there are other drugs that affect B12 too, but they are less common--acid is required to break down proteins OR
4) or you have some genetic error of methylation in your body.

Please read the links I've offered here, as they explain in more detail. You may have to read them more than once over time to really get the gist of them.

Take your methylcobalamin on an empty stomach for best absorption. If you do not, you risk not absorbing it correctly.
About 1% is absorbed orally, when taken correctly.

Thank you so much
 

Thank you so much! I WILL have a busy day today! Your reply is much appreciated, as is the warm welcome.

Hi there and welcome. I have never heard of anyone with that low a B-12 Level. I take Methyl B-12 (now I take 3000 every morning on an empty stomach). I started with 1000, after one week I KNEW I needed the 5000 every morning. I learned everything from Mrs. D and others on these forums.

Best thing I ever did was go on Methylcobalimin.

Hope you get some answers.

Nice meeting you and again, Welcome to Neurotalk

Melody
P.S. My last B-12 level was 2000. I'm diabetic and we need to be in the 4 digit range