NeuroTalk Support Groups - Help understanding MRI language

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Help understanding MRI language

I have congenital spinal stenosis, had cervical surgery '09, some improvement. This relates to my lumbar area, can you assist in converting into plain understandable english ? These are the highlights.....I comprehend much of the rest, it is more of the same I have heard over the years, this stuff is new to me and I can use some education before speaking to my Dr..

1. Bone marrow signal/fracture: In the interval, there has been development of edema involving the right pedicles at L4 and L5 with edema seen in the facets at L4 -- L5 on the right. Also, some edema involves the L4 spinous process and lamina with adjacent edema in the posterior paraspinous soft tissues noted.

2. L4-L5: Broad bulging annulus moderate to severe facet degenerative*change noted with moderate canal stenosis seen at this level. Moderate*right and mild left foraminal narrowing seen at this level.

3. Interval development of extensive edema involving the right facets at L4*-- L5 extending to the pedicles at the L4 and L5 levels with involvement*of the posterior elements at the L4 level. Some inflammatory edema seen*about the right facet joint and posterior elements at this level.*Imaging findings are favored to represent marked facet*arthropathy/inflammation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steinec (Post 973239)

Reading MRI results and then constructing various imaginary pain scenarios is truly putting the cart before the horse. Diagnostic imaging (MRI) is done to confirm or deny and facilitate a suspected diagnosis based off of the history taken and clinical examination findings. MRI impressions do nothing more than describe anatomy, both normal and abnormal, but do not "show" pain. Your doc determines whether or not the "findings" are significant for you.

I guess the take away here is that the MRI findings will help support or deny what your referring doc is already considering. They are almost never ordered as gateway to a "fishing expedition." I would simply ask your doc what each finding means and how it relates to your problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious (Post 973259)

I'm disappointed and offended by your comment. My question has nothing to do with "constructing various imaginary pain scenarios". Did you get that impression from the MRI language ? Those are cut/paste words straight out of the mri results. I am simply trying to understand the language/meaning of the terminology in those line items so that I can ask intelligent questions when we meet the Dr. end of week. In the past, I would simply paste in the terms used in the mri's and get definitions and piece together the meaning, now there is this forum that offers another avenue of education. This IS NOT the kind of response I expected when I researched all of the posts last night and chose to join this forum.

I'll try to help ~

1. There is edema (swelling) in the right pedicles (the basal part of each side of the neural arch of the vertebra connecting the laminae with the centrum. The laminae are part of the neural arch; the centrum is the body of the vertebra towards the front of the neural arch). There is edema (swelling) seen in the facets of L4-5 on the right. The facets are the "wing-like" structures on each side of the spinal cord. When you hunch your back over, you can see them and feel them. :) Also there is edema in the tissues next to the spinal cord.

2. At L4-5 there is broad bulging of the Annula - this is a sac that the disc sits in. The sac is filled with fluid and nerves. There is moderate to SEVERE facet degenerative changes with moderate canal stenosis (narrowing of the canal) Moderate right and mild left foraminal narrowing. The foramen are the holes that the nerves pass thru to get to the spinal cord.

3. Extensive swelling involving the facets at L4-5 extending to the pedicles (see above) extending to the posterior elements at L4. (????) Inflammatory edema at right facet joint and posterior elements. Facet arthropathy/inflammation. Facet arthropathy means disease of the facets. It does NOT specify WHAT disease. Arthropathy just means disease of a joint.

I hope I've helped you A LITTLE. :( If you have any questions, please let me know. Please take care, and God bless. Hugs, Lee ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by steinec (Post 973303)

Sorry you are offended. Not sure why as my comments were not personal and directed at you. Sorry you took offense anyway. I had been up for 30 hours and was severly jetlagged when I wrote that. Perhaps something was lost in the translation. Look, my point was that clinical diagnosis runs downhill, like a river. History...systems review...subjective complaints...clinical exam...diagnostic imaging...labs...diagnosis! It only works in this direction. And at best, that works correctly 3 out of 10 times at first bat. Then it is called differential diagnosis. If you try to run the river back up the hill then all you have is a big mess. MRI's are anatomical so that normal and abnormal anatomy/findings mean nothing by themselves. Abnormal findings can be painless and normal findings can be a problem. What I mean is, taking MRI results and trying work them backwards, up the river, into meaning something by themselves without the progressive diagnostic flow mentioned above can only create many red herrings that you don't need. I was just trying to help....

MRI in plain english

Thanks, so much, Leesa ! Combined with some other sources, I'm cobbling together a list of questions which I hope will yield a good consult Friday. BTW friend of DrBob & BW as well; their first meeting (with each other) happened just 20 minutes from our home, my wife and I are very active, don't want to stray off topic but have you been down for Founder's Day ? Thanks again, I will update progress.

No I haven't been to Founders day, darn it. I'm disabled and traveling is difficult. I went to a Convention in Kentucky years ago, but haven't make it to Founders day. It sure would be wonderful to see tho. I have a feeling I'll never make it.

Nice to meet another friend of Dr.Bob & BW! :) Take care! Hugs, Lee