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maryjane11 01-11-2014 04:08 PM

complicated need help
 
Has anyone had experience with a failed laminectomy leading to horrendous pain?Is there treatment for this?
I previously had a L4-5 Laminectomy for a partial footdrop 15 years ago. Although it looked like it was "successful" it took a year to heal and I always had regrets about the surgeon. He did not spend the time necessary to stabilize the joint is my guess. It would take too long to explain here fully but let's just say he is on youtube and has a lovely garden in his new home in Hawaii. :eek:

In any case fast forward to now with failed laminectomy on that same level as evidenced by the l4-5 disc collapsing with severe DDD. THere is a bone spur causing pain on same level now as well. My current pain has been so debilitating that I am stuck in bed 24/7 for the most part. mostly hip and back pain on the left and little leg pain.Basically I feel the same pain I did prior to the surgery 15 years ago except no foot drop. The spasms are so great it hurts my knees to walk. It looks like l5-S1 is collapsing. I have had multiple epidurals of L4-5 and facet joint. Not much in the way of relief.
It is driving me to despair. Anyone else experience this sort of problem?

ginnie 01-11-2014 07:12 PM

Hi Many Jane
 
These kind of surgeries have so many different outcomes. Has your doctor ever mentioned Ketamine infusions?. Sometimes when the surgery fails, or you continue on with DDD, this is used. I have had several of them and they helped for a number of months. Hard to find facilities that use it, or pain specialists who are competent in it usage. Done under a scope, I can tell you it didn't hurt, and it helped for a period of about 4 months for me. My DDD continued after my first fusion, and I had to have more done 6 years later. These in spine infusions were done in between the two surgeries.
I have the same kind of issues you do with DDD. Right now I am seeing a physiatrist, who is doing acue puncture. She was trained at Harvard, and I have faith it will help. You might want to consider that as part of your therapy. I just had my first yesterday, so I don't know if it works yet. I plan on doing that at every visit from now on. I sure don't want any more surgery! I would have to go back to Tampa, for Ketamine. However, if I got really bad, I would ask to have that done again.
When was your last MRI? or CT scan? Has your doctor offered any kind of therapy to you? ginnie:grouphug:

ger715 01-11-2014 11:43 PM

Maryjane,

Not sure I can be of much help; but did have spine fusion L4-5, along with a laminectomy about 8 years ago. Had the epicurals, etc.; even tried a trial spinal cord stimulator (SCS) which none of them helped.

I have been Oxycontin, Percocet, Valllium, as well as Ambien Cr. in addition to other meds daily. These help me get thru the day. Still 24/7 pain; but most of the time am able to function to some extent. Since the above surgery, have developed PN, along with the spinal pain. The worst part of the narcotics is the constipation which need to take Miralax daily. Everything has its price.

Ginnie has some good ideas that may be of help to you. She has had her share of dealing with pain; but never gives up trying.


Gerry

maryjane11 01-12-2014 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginnie (Post 1042977)
These kind of surgeries have so many different outcomes. Has your doctor ever mentioned Ketamine infusions?. Sometimes when the surgery fails, or you continue on with DDD, this is used. I have had several of them and they helped for a number of months. Hard to find facilities that use it, or pain specialists who are competent in it usage. Done under a scope, I can tell you it didn't hurt, and it helped for a period of about 4 months for me. My DDD continued after my first fusion, and I had to have more done 6 years later. These in spine infusions were done in between the two surgeries.
I have the same kind of issues you do with DDD. Right now I am seeing a physiatrist, who is doing acue puncture. She was trained at Harvard, and I have faith it will help. You might want to consider that as part of your therapy. I just had my first yesterday, so I don't know if it works yet. I plan on doing that at every visit from now on. I sure don't want any more surgery! I would have to go back to Tampa, for Ketamine. However, if I got really bad, I would ask to have that done again.
When was your last MRI? or CT scan? Has your doctor offered any kind of therapy to you? ginnie:grouphug:

Thank you both SO MUCH for your quick response. I really am at my wits end! And receiving your posts was such a relief. Thank you again.
I just had an mri done showing DDD particularly at the previous laminectomy site L4-5 from 15 years ago. Thank you for the tip. Is the ketamine injection done like an epidural injection? under fluro at L4-5? how does it work? Will insurance pay for it?
Can surgery such as a fusion ever help?
So far have had epidurals but not fully helping.
acupuncture has been extensively tried and ,not really helpful for me.

ginnie 01-12-2014 03:24 PM

Hi Maryjane
 
Hi, and I sure am sorry you have not gotten enough relief. Yes the infusions are done under fluoroscopy,. A bit more involved for me, as it isn't just an injection. They thread a cath, into the spine going from one vertebra to the next. Plenty of anesthetic was used prior, and I didn't feel any pain at all. I had this done C3-7. My C3-6 failed with fusion, and the rest toppled over called the domino effect. I reversed the curve. The second fusion, worked, and my pain in less.
Sometimes fusion works, and sometimes it just doesn't. After reading all the posts that people have gone through, there really doesn't seem to be a reason that it works for some but not others. Guess it just depends on the severity of the vertebra.
I would do this infusion again, if ever that pain got as bad as it did before.
My T-1-2-3 aren't so hot.....
Also you might want to consider not getting any more steroid injections. If they fail the first couple of times, they aren't going to work at all as a rule. Doctors are just spinning their wheels. Epidural, and steroid didn't work for me at all...... I think I declined some other shot that to me was not worth trying. I got sick of needles, and when the doc. mentioned this I was hesitant. However it turned out pretty good for temporary relief.
I just didn't want to repeat what didn't work before.
I did do some work today, sanding some on the floor in my garage. The acu puncture, seems to have helped actually, so I will go for that again. That doesn't hurt at all but looks funny to see these needles sticking out of you. Also they are put in places that you don't understand why they would work from that location. Very interesting and worth a visit to see if it would help you. I am all for stuff that doesn't hurt on top of being hurt! Take care and keep in touch. ginnie:hug:

maryjane11 01-12-2014 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginnie (Post 1043127)
Hi, and I sure am sorry you have not gotten enough relief. Yes the infusions are done under fluoroscopy,. A bit more involved for me, as it isn't just an injection. They thread a cath, into the spine going from one vertebra to the next. Plenty of anesthetic was used prior, and I didn't feel any pain at all. I had this done C3-7. My C3-6 failed with fusion, and the rest toppled over called the domino effect. I reversed the curve. The second fusion, worked, and my pain in less.
Sometimes fusion works, and sometimes it just doesn't. After reading all the posts that people have gone through, there really doesn't seem to be a reason that it works for some but not others. Guess it just depends on the severity of the vertebra.
I would do this infusion again, if ever that pain got as bad as it did before.
My T-1-2-3 aren't so hot.....
Also you might want to consider not getting any more steroid injections. If they fail the first couple of times, they aren't going to work at all as a rule. Doctors are just spinning their wheels. Epidural, and steroid didn't work for me at all...... I think I declined some other shot that to me was not worth trying. I got sick of needles, and when the doc. mentioned this I was hesitant. However it turned out pretty good for temporary relief.
I just didn't want to repeat what didn't work before.
I did do some work today, sanding some on the floor in my garage. The acu puncture, seems to have helped actually, so I will go for that again. That doesn't hurt at all but looks funny to see these needles sticking out of you. Also they are put in places that you don't understand why they would work from that location. Very interesting and worth a visit to see if it would help you. I am all for stuff that doesn't hurt on top of being hurt! Take care and keep in touch. ginnie:hug:

last question Ginnie. Was your infusion paid for by insurance?

ginnie 01-12-2014 06:24 PM

Hi Mary Jane
 
I am on Medicare, and yes it did pay for the infusion. My pain specialist didn't take Medicaid, but also didn't charge me the 20%. I think I remember the statement from Medicare. I believe it was $800. I sure hope some help comes your way. ginnie:hug:

ger715 01-12-2014 09:01 PM

Maryjane,
As I had mentioned previously, i had L4-5 fusion(Rods & Screws) done during the same surgery as laminectomy. My pain has continued; but my vertebrae had been crushing a major nerve between the two levels. The surgeon said he had never seen "such an angry red nerve before". If I had not had the fusion, I'm afraid the nerve would have been severed sooooo, while I still have pain; it would have been worse had I not had the fusion done.

As Ginny said.....sometimes they take away the pain; but often fusion is done because the vetebrae are coming down (sometimes a domino effect..more than one or two); but without the surgery, there can be a risk of additional damage.

It's always good to get as much input as possible. Both of us are happy we can be of help in any way.


Gerry

maryjane11 01-16-2014 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ger715 (Post 1043191)
Maryjane,
As I had mentioned previously, i had L4-5 fusion(Rods & Screws) done during the same surgery as laminectomy. My pain has continued; but my vertebrae had been crushing a major nerve between the two levels. The surgeon said he had never seen "such an angry red nerve before". If I had not had the fusion, I'm afraid the nerve would have been severed sooooo, while I still have pain; it would have been worse had I not had the fusion done.

As Ginny said.....sometimes they take away the pain; but often fusion is done because the vetebrae are coming down (sometimes a domino effect..more than one or two); but without the surgery, there can be a risk of additional damage.

It's always good to get as much input as possible. Both of us are happy we can be of help in any way.


Gerry

thanks for reminding me. so your fusion has helped save your spine. How much pain are you in now and can you walk normally and if so form how long? I guess my spine is not unstable and no one can find impingement on MRI. But I feel the nerve pain at L5 nerve root. because when I get the epidural it initailly takes away the pain. what do they do when epidurals help but don't really fully take away teh pain? keep doing epidurals or surgery? the problem is nothing pops out on teh MRI. Clearly L4-5 is gone but apparently no clear idea if it is the pain generator. I have gotten 3 different opinions. One to operate on a presumed stenosis at L5 S1 and teh other to do a possible 3 level hybrid and ADR. what would you do?


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