Cannabis. A fork in the road.
 

I live in Colorado where cannabis, both for recreational and medical purposes has recently become legal. For two years, I have suffered from debilitating PN and like many others, I have submitted my person to science in many ways for all of the testing associated with ruling out underlying causes. I am glad I did it. I have earned my PN badge. It’s not something I ever wanted but there it is. Also like many others with PN, the underlying cause in my case is unknown. I don’t have cancer or HIV and I was told that unless I changed my lifestyle dramatically, I will never be diabetic. I have been tested for everything that the best neurologists can think of and my Peripheral Neuropathy was determined to be idiopathic in nature, aka IPN.

Since the onset of my symptoms, I have educated myself, poured tens of thousands of dollars into it and devoting myself to making it all better to ultimately improve my now diminished quality of life. I have been prescribed the typical: Gabapentin, Klonopin, Lyrica, Cymbalta (in that order) and recently compounding cream. I have tried countless OTC supplements & creams, literally countless. I have three shelves of them and routinely go through them to box the ones that I am sure haven’t helped to make room for the new ones that just arrived. I use devices like The Rebuilder and Anodyne, I even own a traction device. I have built an arsenal of the things that help a little but I am nowhere near where I need to be, having my condition managed so I can go on with my otherwise happy, successful, great life. I recently ran into a snag with my insurance covering Lyrica (which isn’t all that great IMO) and while that was being sorted out and I was spending the usual countless hours researching PN in my endless search for relief, I came across a reputable study on cannabis and then the pain relieving components of the plant. Then I read another study and another, all posting positive results in the area of treating neuropatic pain. Why haven’t I tried this?

Everyone is different and what works for one, may not work for another so I don’t know how long this thread will travel but I am at a point where I will try anything and today I am trying CBD, the organic, pain relieving component of the marijuana plant. There are no psychoactive properties, there is no high or smoking but rather just the pain relieving benefit from the plant. If I am willing to put all of these lab-manufactured chemicals in my body, why not try something that grows from the earth? It is legal and available here and there is research to support it so I am going to give it a shot.

I'll post back with my experiences, positive, negative or neutral.

There are a couple of issues to think about.

1) If you take anything sedative...RX wise, you will get increased sedation if you use MJ.

2) If you take opiates, your doctor may test your urine at visits and if you test positive for MJ, you may lose your RX for the opiates. Some doctors are strict about this.

Beatle... You've laid out the most rational and persuasive argument for weed! Call it cannabis or whatever you want, I've considered the same things and agree. It's not available legally to me, but I've lead the most insanely "straight" life and I would light up in a minute if it releaved my pain! Please... let us know how it goes. I'm really curious. Thanks for posting

I do not know anything about weed, so I am a little stupid on the subject, but if you take it as a medicine is it still inhaled like a cigarette? And if so, isn't that very dangerous to lung health?? Sorry if that is a stupid question.

While I do not know much about weed, I cant imagine it is much worse than all these drugs being shoved down our throats, but I would not want to inhale smoke and cause more problems.

Thank you MrsD, really good points.

I do not take sedatives or opiates and the product that I am using (well, starting today) is CBD, not THC. It is a lab-tested medical product that has been on the table for me for a while.

This isn't for everyone. I am in a unique position to try it, because of where I reside and I have researched it. I want to give it a fair shot just as I've given everything else and if it doesn't work, I plan to shelve (or box) it like all the other things that didn't work and move on to the next thing, whatever that is.

I neglected to mention that I have also tried acupuncture, physical therapy, massage therapy, trigger point therapy, A.R.T., yoga, meditation, energy healing and Ayurvedic medicine.

I know of some neuropathic (and other chronic pain) sufferers benefiting from smoking MMJ but what I am trying is CBD in the form of a transdermal patch. No smoke and no high whatsoever. I do not want to be high. I want to be healthy.

CNN has aired three documentaries on MMJ in recent months profiling several cases of chronic pain sufferers including small children with seizure disorders being treated here with CBD after pharmaceuticals have failed. There are also several studies supporting its use for neuropathic pain. There is data out there, just Google CBD and neuropathy.

Marijuana is a federally illegal drug but Colorado voters passed a law to legalize and tax it and the federal government said it will not interfere.

Again, I don't know how or if it will work for me but I am desperate and open to it. By the way, nothing could make me higher than Cymbalta!

Thanks for your post, I am very curious to hear how it goes. I have been reading a lot about it too lately, and have some acquaintances in the scientific field working on some of the end products. I have SFN, and want to try it for pain but almost more for nausea which I get with flairs of my autonomic neuropathy. And like you, I do not want to get high. When I was in the hospital earlier this year for intractable nausea, they did give me a cannibinoid, but a doctor did tell me that since I had not been a regular user of marijuna, it may not be effective for me. But that was one product and one doctor, so I'm still curious what's out there that could be helpful. Look forward to hearing of your experience

Awaiting your results and comments. I have watched the CNN reports and find them promising...in certain situations.

I can pretty much bet that Hell will freeze before Virginia legalizes MJ...even for medical use :wink:

Thanks for taking the time to post your background and newest trial. Again, I look forward to hearing how it goes. But please be careful when using in conjunction with other medications, as interactions may not be listed online (because they may not have been tested).

Good luck

It can be but doesn't have to be. It can be gotten into the body in any way/method something can be gotten into the body—inhaled, eaten, drunk, sublingual, suppository, injected, transdermal....

Two recent threads here.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread193628.html

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread194448.html

Doc

This is very interesting topic. Like others here, I'd very much like to hear how you go with this.

I for one don't care whether pot is legal or not here, if it works I'd take it regardless. That said, small personal quantities are usually considered ok by our law enforcement, they turn a blind eye.

Mother Nature provided pot, no doubt for medicinal purposes.

I had the same concerns as Stacey re: smoke impacting lungs. Wondering if a few hash cookies with morning tea would do the trick.

Looking forward to hearing how this goes.

Hi Beatle
 

I would bring this to the attention of your doctors. Since you live in a legal state, it is worth trying to see if it helps. Some pain specialists won't prescribe any medication if you use MJ, even if it is in a legal state. I am involved in getting this issue on our ballot here in Florida. I tried it when I had a window of opportunity, as I do get tested for drugs. It did help, so I went on to fight the correct way, through the legal system. PN is strange, that's for sure. I have it in multiple areas. I do think mj is less damage than opiates. If you use a vaporizer, or better yet the MJ that doesn't have THC, then you are getting the benefit without smoke or the high associated with it. The 6 brothers in your state are growing different kinds for many patients. Get in touch with them and your doctor. Keep us posted on your experiences. ginnie

Yesterday was the first day I have ever tried a CBD product in my life and it was a good day. I almost posted here last night but I didn’t want to speak too soon. I have had other good days with PN - okay, not great, but certainly functional. The best way I can describe my experience yesterday is uneventful. No brain fog or high, nothing like that. In fact, I could think clearer because I was not distracted by PN pain, it was simply gone. That is what I noticed about it, that the stabbing pains and electrical shocks were not present. The tingling was also much less noticeable. Normally the tingling antagonizes me constantly and it was still there, far less though, barely noticeable in fact and not bothersome. The numb parts of my feet remained numb however and I don’t think anything can change that besides possible nerve regeneration and that happens over a long period of time, if ever.

This morning, I woke up at 7:00, feeling normal, still no pain, no grogginess either (like I get from Lyrica as I am hypersensitive to most medications; a downfall with my PN), and no pain all day today. I have had good days in the past but two in a row is not typical for me. I was outside today for the first time in I don’t know how long, walking without any pain, with a clear mind and still numbness in my feet. I am being very cautious about this and carefully monitoring myself and waiting for the pain I haven’t felt for the past day. If it all ends tomorrow, I will report that and if I continue to do well, I will report that too.

CBD can be ingested, inhaled, applied topically, transdermally and probably other ways I can’t even think of (see Dr. Smith’s comment). CBD has been overshadowed by THC, the psychoactive chemical that gets you high but CBD does NOT get you high. Of course many people like the THC high but not me (tried it in high school half my life ago). I am specifically in need relief from PN pain without the brain effects associated with the prescription drugs and CBD has given me that for 24 hours so far.

Below are some of the studies that influenced my decision to try CBD for my PN after all else has failed. The pain relieving components of Cannabis are currently being tested extensively on an international level with promising results so far and it is gradually being embraced by the medical community. Their embracing comes in the form of scientific results and that still will take some time but from what I can see right now, there appears to be some hope for CBD in the treatment for neuropathic pain.


From The British Pharmacological Society:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24117398

Difference between THC and CBD administration:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22716148

Dr. Sanjay Gupta is “doubling down” on legalizing MMJ and specifically mentions neuropathic pain:
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/sa...rijuana-2014-3
(He was previously opposed to MMJ prior to researching it and has now hosted two documentaries about it on CNN)

From the Federation of European Neuroscience for Osteoarthritis pain:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24494687


Comprehensive papers on the topic:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755639/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3371734/

Thank you very much for getting back to us so quickly. No doubt many, like myself, will be a little skeptical for a few more weeks, waiting to see if this effect continues to work for you over time. However, it does indeed look very promising.

I'm rather excited to get my hands on this, but I doubt it's available yet in Australia. Will make inquiries though. I also smoked it many many years ago, as a recreational, social drug, at the beach with friends. Life was free and easy then, and we were harming nobody.

Just looking into it a little now and I see it's looking promising in some cases as a cancer preventative. Impressive!!

Keep us informed, please. :)

Thanks Debbie,
I definitely will keep updating with my experiences, good or bad.

Here are my concerns:

- That I build a tolerance and over time, need more and more to reap the benefits of pain relief. A very realistic concern.

- That it stops working. A year ago I was prescribed clonazepam (Klonopin) by a neuro and I did very well for a few weeks before it stopped working completely. Benzodiazepines are known for that and CBD is not at all related but I am a skeptic by nature and would need a significant amount of time to go by before I could cross this off the list.

- That is becomes unavailable or a shortage occurs. This could happen with anything but the way things are going here in the US, medical marijuana laws are gradually changing, resulting in more competition and hence, more availability. Still, it's something that I have thought about.

Dependence I do not worry about at all. I have already weighed this out and given the choice between being bedridden with PN as I have been or dependent on swallowing a pill or wearing a patch every day to function like a healthy person...

Right now, I am very much enjoying this relief with a clear mind. It has been a long time since I have felt this normal and CBD has so far exceeded my expectations.

I am holding off on reporting anything to doctors. This is new for me Ginnie and need to be methodical how I proceed. I am doing baby steps with it. I too believe MMJ is better than opiates. I also know about the brothers here. They are helping a lot of people right now. I too am getting help that I am grateful for.

If this happens, periodic breaks—medication vacations—should work well.

I haven't heard of this with CBD, but time will tell. If it happens, I would try the same "vacation", as it may just be a tolerance issue.

Given your location, is this really an issue? I would think that if it proves a successful therapy for you, you might naturally move on to self-supplying (growing your own of an appropriate strain).

Following with interest.

Doc

Hi Stacy
 

I am involved in getting this MJ on our ballot this coming fall. There are ways of using MJ without smoke at all! There is something called a vaporizer. If this law passes, and allows this state to be for Medical MJ., I will try it in this way. I don't want the harmful part, the smoke. In fact, if they removed the THC, that would be fine with me too. From all that I am reading on the subject, it does provide a measure of relief from pain. Good to talk about this subject, as the laws will begin to change for most of the USA in time. ginnie

Right now I am wishing I lived in Colorado. Beatle this sounds so promising. I hope it keeps working. Just to have two days of no pain and a clear head would be amazing. Thanks for bringing this to the forum.
As I said before PA will probably be the last state to make it legal. Our governor wants to part of it.

This is fantastic news ... wow!

I also always tell anyone with "Idiopathic" pain such as yours to explore Lyme Disease and be properly tested for it!

Please keep giving us regular updates!

David

:)

...or it could be the next.

13 States with Pending Legislation to Legalize Medical Marijuana (as of Apr. 10, 2014)

Bill To Legalize Medical Marijuana In Pennsylvania Has Bipartisan Support For First Time Ever

medical marijuana pennsylvania

Doc

It's so awesome that you've provided this info, beatle! I tried cannabis several years ago and found it made me groggy, dizzy and didn't help my pain -- at the time, though, it was hard to get good information about high-CDB strains. Much easier to find a high-CDB strain now.

HOWEVER, after looking around, I've found that anyone in the US can get CDB derived from hemp. As you've said, CDB is not psychoactive. It also happens to be present in abundance in hemp. Although we can't grow hemp in the US, anyone here can buy hemp products, including hemp oil.

Here are some links I've found that will be of interest to those interested in CDB. My own path right now is to find a hemp-based product rather than spending the $200+ it takes for a medical marijuana card in my state.

http://www.projectcbd.org/

http://www.leafly.com/news/medical/h...-access-no-pro

It has been about week since my last post and CBD is working very well. I have found the right dose and I am on a regular schedule. It has completely removed my pain-related symptoms: tingling, stabbing, stinging, electric shocks, all of which were constant and antagonized (more like terrorized) me, they are all suppressed now, comfortably and consistently.

Also, just before I started the CBD I got a new compounding cream that might be helpful to some. It contains small amounts of Clonidine and tetracaine that really helped for the topical stinging. Topical Clonidine gel is now in Phase III clinical trials and positive results have been documented. It could still be more than a year before a product hits the market but compounding pharmacies already make creams with it so for anyone suffering, it might be an option to discuss with your care provider.

I still have PN but for the first time in two years, I feel that I have the pain under control with CBD and without the intolerable side effects of the numerous prescriptions I've tried. The bigger issue now is the numbness and I remain hopeful that with (not too much) time, the nerves will regenerate.

I will keep posting but wanted to report that I am very happy with the results so far.

If and when the CBD become affordable and available (our state is medically legal only, and CBD is not really approved)....I might try it for pain. But so far my topical products do well for me at this point. I am not progressing, and that is good enough for me.

But it is great that you are enjoying your new treatments.
Our RSD forum members --some of them use clonidine in their transdermal creams as well.
I think it would be prudent to keep track of your blood pressure daily just in case.

Some interventions for PN and pain, seem to create tolerance. So once your initial honeymoon is over, I hope you continue as you are now, and are mostly painfree.

Thank you MrsD. I am all too familiar with the drug honeymoon which I went through with Klonopin. Time will tell with CBD, I would expect it will become legal though. It effectively treats pain and there are no psychoactive effects or side effects at all as far as I am aware. Then again, it is cheap to produce so there could be political suppression from the pharmaceutical industry and the government via lobbying. We all know how that works.

Through my own suffering with PN and learning how difficult it is to treat, my course of action has been to try everything possible within reason until I find what works for me. I think one of the biggest challenges for myself and many others with PN pain is that it frequently changes, waxes and wanes, comes and goes, whatever you want to call it, the symptoms are inconsistent and can really sneak up on us.

For now, I am enjoying this time off from Lyrica, however long it may last. Talk about psychoactive effects! I was on another planet with that drug, it caused blurry vision and made my eyeballs hurt, they literally ached! :eek: ...and yet, that was the best I could do.

That is a good point and exactly what I plan to do if this occurs. I can always default to my stockpile of Lyrica and the side effects that come with it.

In my state, we can legally grow 6 plants however, separating the CBD compound from the THC would be the issue. I have done some local research and there are no trends currently towards CBD becoming rare but rather the opposite is occurring.

Thanks for posting the links Nilram. When MMJ became legal here, CBD products quickly failed to keep up with the demand as most were going to epileptic children in dire need coming in from other states (Dr. Sanjay Gupta covered this on the CNN documentary 'Weed') so it was only a matter of time until they became available to others.

If you decide to try a hemp based product, look for pure CBD so you can avoid the high that you would get from THC. And avoid smoking it. Smoke of any kind is horrible for the lungs. It is also important to remember that if you try anything that does contains THC, you would likely fail a drug test if that is of any concern to you. That's my advice. I'm not a doctor, just a PN sufferer, very sensitive to medications and desperate for relief.

Here is a YouTube video explaining CBD. Not a huge production budget but some good information direct from a MMJ doctor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31SrjjgPbhU

I found this youtube video that speaks about CBD and how scientists and growers can look for the plants that have the "gene" that produces high yield CBD content plants and breed higher content CBD plants.
So hopefully in the future will be additional supply and there will be more research done with higher potency CBD plants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31SrjjgPbhU

Whoopi Goldberg debuts as marijuana columnist (Yahoo)
 

N.B. Pocket vaporizers do afford convenience and portability, however they still pose secondhand smoke/vapor concerns and other risks.
Reports of e-cigarette injury jump amid rising popularity, U.S. data show

Also...
Marijuana Vending Machines May Make It a Snap to Get Mile High in Colorado

Doc

Interesting MMJ article
 

I though this was interesting, especially: "Neurologists reported the highest number of patients asking if medical marijuana might help them (70%)."

http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides...ana-survey-web

(Sorry for the mobile link)

When is the next bus to Colorado?
 

I think I must have missed the posting that stated how you ingested it. I can't see it ever becoming legal in Texas, but then who knows.

I have Asthma, so could not smoke it, but I have a weakness for brownies and cookies... :)

Cathie
Yorkiemom

Hi Cathie, It was post #6:

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatle (Post 1062372) I know of some neuropathic (and other chronic pain) sufferers benefiting from smoking MMJ but what I am trying is CBD in the form of a transdermal patch.

Texans increasingly open to improving state marijuana laws

Quote:

A poll commissioned by the Marijuana Policy Project in Texas shows .... Fifty-eight percent of voters support access to medical marijuana .... The people want change, and it appears that politicians in Texas are taking notice.

See also: medical cannabis texas

Comestibles of all kinds are readily available in all dispensaries where medical cannabis is legal.

Doc

I've been out of town all week. I will post an update when I return.

Vox.com: Why doctors should be prescribing marijuana...
 

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/28/5661314...rijuana-and-ms

The new review, published today in the journal Neurology, looked at 34 studies on marijuana's effect on a range of neurological illnesses conducted over the past decade.

Here in PA there is legislation that was set in motion today to legalize medical marijuana.
Unfortunately, our governor said if it makes it to his desk he will veto the bill.

I don't understand how non medical persons can make decisions on medical issues. He doesn't even want to listen to any reason. Although, I think I might, I'm not even sure I would use it. I just find it very disturbing that we have a governor that leaves people in pain and children having seizures so he can make his constituents happy and continue to get campaign funds. Just my opinion but I believe that is his reason.

The parents of those children are planning a sit in at the governors office in Harrisburg if the governor refuses to meet with them. Good for them and shame on him! People like our governor should live just one day in the kind of pain we experience. Or better yet in the shoes of the parents of these children.

Thanks for the news update, Joe
 

I appreciate the news update here tonight. Thanks for sharing the above.

As with a presidential veto of federal legislation, your governor's veto can be overridden by 2/3 vote of the elected legislature.

U.S. states, veto powers, and override authority

Doc

its an election year for governor in pennsylvannia.......get rid of him

Dr. Smith I did not know that thanks for that information. It leaves a window for hope.

Echoes trust me I'm trying. I have encouraged everyone that will listen to vote someone else in. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Hopeful

It can be but not sure how often that happens. Do you know?

Medical Marijuana for PN, CRPS, and SBS
 

Hi Beatle, I just joined this neuro board in hopes of communicating and sharing resources with others seeking pieces to this frustrating and painful anatomical puzzle. I spent 18 years navigating through many of the same doubters, dilemma's and lack of knowledge by doctors and society waiting for technology and research to catch up. I had a fall that led to ankle surgery where everything that could go wrong did. Two years after my CRPS was diagnosed my colon and organs began failing until I lost my small intestines to an ileoanal pouch. Each year has brought more surgeries, debilitating diagnoses and new Rx trials all as the result of my original PN to the tune of #33 to date. PN has affected my guts, organs, bones, tissue, skin, hearing, hair loss, and equilibrium, not to mention my mental health and depression. The most benefit I've received to date has been from adding medical marijuana capsules with 28mg of cannabidiol and less than .05% of THC. These capsules have reduced inflammation, nausea, migraines, joint pain and depression. I take Indica MM capsules at night to help me sleep which have worked wonders. The therapeutic benefits of using the entire plant have been documented as far back as 1700's in Europe, Egypt, the UK and other countries. The salves, lotions, and teas also have extensive healing properties with ZERO negative affects on the mind and body. In 30 days my muscle spasms have reduced by 50% as has my nausea, vomiting and inflammation. If we can't cure it why not manage the negative symptoms the best we can. Let me know if you're interested in reading further information on these capsules. I hope your experience has been as positive as mine.:Dancing-Chilli: