Torture and Chronic Pain...
 

A few years ago, while researching chronic pain on the internet, I came across a pamphlet which had been released by the Pentagon through the freedom of information act. It was a pamphlet created during the early days of the Vietnam "police action", to teach field operatives how to extract information from their captives with leaving physical scars.

I wish I could find it again, but I've looked and looked, and can't seem to find it anywhere. What was so interesting about this pamphlet was that it came closer to describing the stages of chronic pain better than most medical studies I've ever had the chance to read. It talked of making the person feel singled-out, abandoned by their families because they were "different" now. It told how to make them feel unworthy, and gradually lead them down an emotional and psychological path of despair, until nothing mattered anymore except having a friend to talk to who would understand. Then, of course, they'd bring in someone new who sympathized totally with the person being interrogated. According to the report, it was a very effective method.

But what got me the most, and what I'm trying to get to, is that this single military document described the misery and decline of my own life much better than anything else I had seen. I was more than surprised, I was shocked by the process it described. And I've never been able to get it out of my mind. If anyone else has stumbled across this pamphlet, I would really love to have an e-mail to lead me too it. Because it gives you a certain insight into how the body actually responds to chronic stress and pain.

torture and chronic pain
 

Hey there Idealist! Sorry I don't have any info regarding that pamphlet, but I totally understand what you're talking about. Chronic pain is more isolating than a terminal disease -- at least then people come to visit. Family seems to get tired of/bored with the whole thing. Their lives go on without us. Our own self-esteem and worth goes down the drain.

Every day is another 24 hours of torture for so many of us with chronic pain. Nothing really works to alleviate the pain, nobody wants to hear our complaints, etc. Guess living this way is very similar to fighting a daily "war".

Thanks for your insight! Take care......

All pain is subjective. One persons 8 is another persons 2. Also keep in mind that pain is only what you think it is. Forgive me for putting it this way, but it is the best example.

Some people like to get spanked as a normal part of their "Relations" and they find that enjoyable. While the same people while receiving the same spanking during any other time find it painful. Same thing for one person who enjoys it and another that finds it painful. It's all in the perception of the pain. It's all the same "pain" be "felt" but interpreted differently.

Rick

I would like to add Rick that this really is just your opinion, as you perceive it, and in your profession perhaps.

I am sure that most of the people who suffer chronic pain on these forums will tell you....it AINT all in their head!!:rolleyes:

I absolutely see the basis for the info and observations in Idealist's post, and yes, I do believe there is a perceptive index for some with regards to pain, and our "psyche" for want of a better word, can play a very big role.

But I simply do not believe that pain is as simply defined and treated as you would suggest Rick...as open minded as I am and as much as an advocate as I am for alternative therapies

Chemar,

I respect your response. I was not saying that pain, including chonic pain, is all in your head. But research does show that you can change your preception of that pain using hypnosis. I would never tell a client that the pain they feel is all in their head.

But I do so very love working with pain clients because they are very motivated. When they come into my office in extreme pain and leave with half as much pain, we both are very happy.

Rick

From what I learned this is not quite accurate. People who report more subjective pain have more activity in their brain in areas related to pain processing. A higher subjective pain report correlates with more objective findings on FMRI

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/1430684100v1.pdf

People with chronic pain have significant measurable reorgainization of their brains that make them more sensitive to pain, i.e. the same stimulus causes more pain activity in their brain than people without chronic pain for that stimulus.

That said, there are parts of this brain activity that people can learn to reduce with proper training.

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/102/51/18626

It's just that not all of the pain in all situations is responsive to this training.

Lisa,

They have done many studies involving FMRI and PET scans. From my experience, the information I provided above is true. There seems to be "research" pointing in more then one way. I was quoting off of experience with my clients.

Your right not all clients pain in all situations is responsive to this training. But with most clients being very motivated to relieve some of the pain and discomfort, it can be a very helpful tool.

Thanks for the post Lisa.

Rick

Idealist, you are right about how that is one of the best descriptions of what long term severe chronic pain patients go through. It is a process we go through to come to terms with our pain and our lives.

Rick, For years I used a positive approach to my pain, one that I learned as a dedicated weight lifter and athlete. Pain was part of something good going on and was the reason I could deal with extreme pain and still continue working. However, even the 'right mental' approach gets overwhelmed by enough pain that last long enough. Now I use a good mental approach to keep my pain med dosages down and still be able to struggle through each day. There is a limit on how much we can tolerate even if our pain tolerance is high.

I have the excruciating pain that strikes my thigh (sometimes both - and groin) due "supposedly to arthritis". I have a high tolerance for pain and I guarantee you this PAIN IS a 10 plus..

oh...somebody...
 

Anybody....I want a spanking!:cool:
Spank me...oh yes! spank me harder!...yes!...yes....YES!:eek:
That way my constent chronic ever present muscle and joint pain will get jealous and wanna join my behind!
Maybe this way I won't feel so bad...will just know this is all just part of new alternative way to get a little weirdo and kinky!

But seriously....COME ON!....Pain over mind control?!?!
Yeah....I control my mind anytime I gotta get outa bed and do something thats painful like....just move my body!....
No matter how much "fun" I'm having, the best days ever....or complete spiritual experience....deep prayer....I STILL HURT!...and it doesn't make it less when I'm having said experiences!

Even CHRIST on the Cross felt pain WHILE HE was in complete communion with His Father, GOD!
Why else would He have died?....From the pain...it was pain and suffering that held Him to the cross....why else would He have cried out, My God, my God...why have YOU forsaken me?
If it possible, take this cup from me.
Our pain is as real as an apple on a tree...mind control only works for very short time, then when you go back to the "real world"....it all comes back down on you again.

If one WAS able to wish/think/pray their pain away....then why does it return?
I've seen a few programs where patients chose hypnotism as alternative to anesthesia...it worked on some, but not all and was meant for short term "treatment"...not a total cure or long term releif.

Why do the patient$ have to go back for more mind control?
Becau$e it only work$ for very $hort period of time.
Oh did I mention those "treatments" are costly?....
certainly not going to be done for free!
But I don't fault anyone needing to make a few bucks for a living.

Another alternative to the above treatments....pain managment meds.
Now thats pain control! and last a little longer than does just wishing it away for some time. :D:o...
but I admit, is only for awhile.:o just as in mind control!
There is no real answeres to pernamant pain releif....outside total healing.
please call me if they do find such...I'll trade my nice big house for such!
Blessings to my fellow suffers....I know what you're feeling...and it ain't all in yer brain and not just a matter of....Look closley into my swinging pendulum, you are getting sleepy....very sleepy....now bend over, let me spank your bottom!...yes!...yes....YES!...oh baby oh baby!:eek::BeamUp: