Amount of force needed to cause a brain injury
 

History:

Was in fight, hit in temple, been suffering from PCS for almost 2 years. First diagnosed concussion. 22 years of age.

Symptoms:

Mild but frequent headaches, constant tinnitus, sensitivity to sound.


I have been lurking for some time but decided to finally make an account and post. I have been doing some research about how much force is actually needed to cause a brain injury, and the general consensus has been around 50g-90g. Here are some relative forces so you can get an idea of the amount of force that this is:

Sneeze: 2.9g
Slap on back: 4.1g
Hop off step: 8.1g
Plop down in chair: 10.1g

I suffer from anxiety and I get very worried even about small bumps such as when driving, even though I know that there was not enough force to cause another brain injury. An example of this is my friend gave me a hard slap on the shoulder. I mentioned this to my neurologist and he said that this force was not even near the amount needed to be considered a sub-concussive impact.

But then I read on here that some can re-concuss themselves by just a simple bumpy car ride.This makes me quite anxious about my own PCS.

I really want to get back to normal life (no sports or anything), but being able to hug my friends without getting worried, able to receive a pat on the back without being worried, etc. I try to use these statistics to keep my anxiety at bay.

I do understand that every brain is different, but I was just wondering generally what type of impact I should be worried about?

Should I be avoiding hugs, and "other" activities with my girlfriend?

Sorry if this is a strange subject, it's just that my neurologist says one thing, I research another thing online, I just am not sure. My first neurologist said that after 3 months the brain is completely healed and I could go back to playing sports or whatever I wanted (switched neurologists immediately after that appointment). My second neurologist was much more practical and was saying that I now am a higher risk for concussions, but it would still take a pretty significant impact to cause another head injury. And that I should slowly increase my exercise according to my symptoms.

Also I try to live just by gauging my symptoms, but the problem is my anxiety makes my symptoms worse, and I can't tell whether the increase in symptoms is because of the bump or the anxiety.


I appreciate any and all responses.

I am the same way. afraid of so many situations. I do not tolerate any hugs. I am afraid every day from things that used to be normal before PCS.
I never experienced anxiety beforecI had PCS

I'm sorry you're dealing with so much anxiety. I completely emphathize with your problems.

Where did you get the numbers for force behind those everyday actions? Do you have a source? It would be helpful for me to know these figures.

I'm sure that Mark will chime in at some point and tell you none of the things you mentioned are even close to being concussive impacts. I remember from his past posts that the lowest threshold for one is like 50-60g.

I think what you read might have meant that you can flare up your symptoms from a bumpy car ride, but it wouldn't give you a new concussion.

"Sneeze: 2.9g
Slap on back: 4.1g
Hop off step: 8.1g
Plop down in chair: 10.1g"

The sneeze may have some validity if it is a violent sneeze. Most aren't. But the others do not have any validity. There are too many variables that are not considered. I have seen these kinds of comments online. Some of the justifications / math calculations leave a lot top be desired.

Nobody should be afraid of a hug. That is nonsense. Even a pat on the back is no big deal unless you have whiplash issues with your neck and the pat actually caused your body to jerk forward. Not likely. Even then, the problem would be your neck, not your head.

"But then I read on here that some can re-concuss themselves by just a simple bumpy car ride."

The bumpy car ride refers to strong bumps that continue and are such that if you tried to talk, you would not be able to. "How ow ow ow are are are you you you do do ing ing ?" Get the idea ? Maybe like a series of speed bumps ten feet or so apart that lasted for a minute or so of driving. The more common issue would be badly potholed rural/mountain roads that just shake your teeth out. Very few people experience these. And, when they do, they slow way down because the ride is just too uncomfortable for even a healthy brain.

There are rare situations where one might get a severe jolt hitting a bump. These usually require a trip to the wheel alignment shop. As I said, RARE. And usually more of a neck issue.

keep in mind that tires can only generate about 1 to 1.5 G's of stopping force before they skid and lose traction. So, those breaking actions are not even close to a sub-concussion threshold.

Regarding sub-concussive impacts. One at a time, they are no big deal. If you suffer 20 during a 2 hour football practice and do it 5 days a week for a season, I would be concerned.

My neck is very sensitive so I have learned to lean my head and shoulders forward if the road gets bumpy.

So, stop worrying about these little bumps and contacts and get on with your life. If you are going to 'play' around, just stay away from the head board.

btw, I bet there is more movement jerking away from an attempted hug that the hug could ever impart.

I think people are afraid or apprehensive about hugs not because of the force of the hug itself, but of the chance of bonking heads, even slightly. This has happened to me twice since my concussion, probably just anxiety, but I got headaches where the bump occurred for a while.

Hi guys,


I'm reading this post in an huge panic attack right now. I was in the car driving home with my grandfather as the driver. Is driving can be pretty rough at times. We were at a intersection and when the light turned green he sped up very fast and my head just barely tapped the back of my seat.


I'm not worried about the tap, but I'm worried that when he sped up that my head jerked back and this caused another concussion, or just re injured the one I already have.

Only new symptom is that I feel more out of it, and feel more dreamy than normal. I'm extremely scared as today was a great day for me, I made some good steps forward by getting my neck adjusted and overall boost my confidence in this journey, but now I'm worried.


I'm in panic mode right now. Wanting to cry, not sure what to do.


Sam

sam,


NO, NO, NO.

This was not even close to a sub-concussive impact let alone a concussive impact. A car cannot create forces in excess of 1.5 G's, even with the best tires whether you are braking or accelerating.

This is just anxiety.

Read my previous post about forces.

Okay thank you so much mark. my anxiety has calmed down a lot since last night.

Sam, I empathize with you greatly. Yesterday I was a passenger in a car that hit a curb quite hard, enough make to make the car jolt to the side quickly and cause a loud noise. It was definitely the strongest jolt since my initial injury 10 months ago. That said, none of the other 3 passengers complained of any ill-feeling afterward.

Since then, I have felt a strong return of my symptoms. I am trying to rest and convince myself that it was not enough to cause an injury, but we both know how hard that can be. While right now I feel very unsteady, my plan of action is:

1. Rest as much as possible today
2. Force myself to do strenuous physical activity tomorrow

I find that when I am freaking out and can't tell whether it is my anxiety that is causing symptoms, physical activity helps convince myself that I am okay. I try to remember that after my initial brain injury, I could barely walk a mile without feeling utterly exhausted. Then, I go for a long run. When I come back in one piece, I am greatly relaxed, because I've done something I know I could not have done if I had just had another brain injury. In theory, this could work for mental activities as well, but with extreme anxiety it's easy to flub on those.

In short, the next time you are reeling from a bump or jolt, try to take a day to rest and then challenge yourself with a safe physical activity that you know you could not do after a brain injury. When you succeed, you'll know you're okay.

Hang in there.