A Dietary Approach for Managing Peripheral Neuropathy
 

Hi guys
This is an article I've abridged and reproduced from NutritionFacts.org. The whole website seems a fantastic resource. Dr Michael Gregor is an able communicator, though I had to get used to his voice, before I could enjoy it. (I was the same with Neil Young.) To summarise, he proposes a plant based diet pretty much for all conditions and backs it up with strong evidence. The article below is not proof and not subject to the rigorous analysis of a double blind placebo controlled peer reviewed paper, however it offers hope. Hope is important. Although this is concerned with diabetic neuropathy I wondered if this describes the mechanism for all PN? :-

A remarkable study was published 20 years ago on the regression of diabetic neuropathy with a plant-based diet. There are two types of diabetic neuropathy: a relatively painless type characterized by numbness, tingling and pins-and-needles sensations and a second form, which is painful with burning or aching sensations to the point of excruciating, lancinating or stabbing pain. This study concentrated on the painful type of diabetic neuropathy.

Twenty-one diabetics suffering with moderate or worse symptomatic painful neuropathy for up to ten years were placed on a whole food, plant-based diet along with a half-hour walk every day. There were years of suffering and then complete relief of the pain in 17 out of the 21 patients within days.

Numbness noticeably improved, too, and the side effects were all good. They lost ten pounds, blood sugars got better, and insulin needs dropped in half. And, in five of the patients, not only was their painful neuropathy apparently cured, so was their diabetes. Their blood sugars were normal, and they were off all medications. Their triglycerides and cholesterol also improved, as did high blood pressure. In fact, it was gone in about half the hypertensives an 80 percent drop overall in need for high blood pressure medications within three weeks.

Now, this was a live-in program, where patient's meals were provided. What happened after they were sent home? The 17 folks were followed for years, and the relief from the painful neuropathy continued or improved even further for all except one person. How did they get that kind of compliance? According to the researchers, Pain and ill health are strong motivating factors.

Diabetic neuropathy is one of the most painful and frustrating conditions to treat in all of medicine, and 75 percent of patients were cured within days with a natural, nontoxic, and, in fact, beneficial treatment: a diet composed of whole, plant foods.

How could nerve damage be reversed so suddenly? It wasn't necessarily the improvement in blood sugar control, since it took about ten days for the diet to control the diabetes, whereas the pain was gone in as few as four days.

There are several mechanisms by which the total vegetarian diet works to alleviate the problem of diabetic neuropathy The researchers most interesting speculation was that it could be:-

1. The trans fats naturally found in meat, dairy, and refined vegetable oils that could be causing an inflammatory response. They found a significant percentage of the fat found under the skin of those who ate meat or dairy consisted of trans fats, whereas those on a strictly whole food, plant-based diet had none.

The researchers stuck needles in the buttocks of people eating different diets and found that nine months or more on a strict plant-based diet appeared to remove the trans fat from their bodies (or at least their butts). Their pain, however, didn't take nine months to get better, it got better in days.

2. More likely, it was due to an improvement in blood flow. Nerve biopsies in diabetics with severe progressive neuropathy have shown small vessel disease within the nerve. There are blood vessels within our nerves that can get clogged up too. The oxygen levels in the nerves of diabetics were found to be lower than even the levels of de-oxygenated blood. This lack of oxygen within the nerves may arise from blockages within the blood vessels depriving the nerves of oxygen, presumably leading them to cry out in pain.

Within days, though, improvements in blood rheology, or the ease of blood flow, on a plant-based diet may play a prominent role in the reversal of diabetic neuropathy.


I took the article from the top link. There are other resources too.



Best Diet for Diabetic Neuropathy | NutritionFacts.org

neuropathy | Health Topics | NutritionFacts.org


A short video link:-

Curing Painful Diabetic Neuropathy | NutritionFacts.org


An approach to all diseases:-


More than an Apple a Day: Preventing the Most Common Diseases | NutritionFacts.org

Due to our unprecedented situation with Covid 19 and the unique opportunity it affords and as "pain is a strong motivational factor" I have been on a Plant Based Diet for 5 days and intend to follow it until the end of lockdown. If anyone shows any interest I will report back results.

I would appreciate any thoughts about this.

I personally believe SUGAR is the #1 Killer for all our health. Over intake of carbs as well.

Would love to hear how your plant based diet is working. Thanks

Yes, inflammation causing sugar.

Low-Grade Inflammation's Role in Chronic Disease

Thanks for the response Jane. I was overwhelmed by the interest shown in my diet!

Well I am on day 22 of a Plant Based Diet. I want to begin with a quote from the study I reproduced in the opening message of this thread:-

There are two types of diabetic neuropathy: [1] a relatively painless type characterized by numbness, tingling and pins-and-needles sensations and a second form,[2] which is painful with burning or aching sensations to the point of excruciating, lancinating or stabbing pain.

When I started out I was experiencing the second type of neuropathy, now and for over a week, maybe 10 days I get no shooting pains and my symptoms have moved to the first type of neuropathy. Please note I am not diabetic.

All of these improvements might have happened anyway without dietary changes. However I believe a dietary approach to self healing is cost effective and eliminates the need of expensive supplements. What does it matter if arginine improves oxygen transportation in the blood? Are you really going to pay out for that for the rest of your life when nitrate rich foods like green leafy vegetables or beetroot juice will do the same at a fraction of the cost and with all the other health benefits too? Food is the best medicine. Above all making myself the subject of an experiment has given me focus and purpose and has established a clear goal in my mind. That in itself feels good. The next step is the elimination of all symptoms.

Yes I agree Inflammation is the enemy and improved blood and blood flow is our friend. Does anyone have any thoughts on any of the issues I have raised?I have plenty more to say if anyone shows any interest.

My [idiopathic] neuropathy is 99% numbness, no trace of diabetes however.

It has been almost 10 years since the sudden onset of my PN, in that period there has been no change, good or bad. Since the PN has not gotten worse, I consider that a "win".

Atticus, I want to say thank you for posting those links/videos. I was telling my daughter about them and coincidentally she was reading Dr. Greger’s book - How Not To Die. It is sad how doctors are quick to prescribe a medication instead of addressing nutrition with a proper diet, something that is desperately lacking in so many parts of the world.
I too am not diabetic (idiopathic) but decided to give The Whole food plant based diet a try. If it didn’t help my neuropathy at least it might clear an artery or two. :) After about 3 weeks I have noticed some improvement. Neuropathy is such a fickle disease that I hesitate to even say there’s improvement but so far so good.
Hope you are having continued success. So happy I ran across your post.

Hey Jane 85

I saw a film last night on Netflix that I think you will enjoy. It’s called "What The Health." It promotes a Plant Based Diet and features Michael Gregor amongst others. It’s a film everone should see. As I say its on Netflix but this is a link to a YouTube Version.

What The Health Documentary 2017 HD English Subtitles - YouTube


Next is a hardcore breakdown of sections of the film with scientific evidence/papers to back it up.


Facts — WHAT THE HEALTH



For balance. Here is an article debunking the film:-

Debunking What the Health, the buzzy new documentary that wants you to be vegan - Vox


So glad to see a fellow Plant Based Dieter. I love it and its so easy in Lockdown. I'll post an update of my diet/PN experience soon.

Take care.

how not to die
 

what a great cooincidence. I just ordered the book "how not to die" independently of your post as my cardiologist recommended it. I am also planning to start a plant based diet soon although this will be a big challenge for me.

the study you mentioned sounds promising but I am wondering why the did not make any nerve testing to see whether the improvements could be measured as well. for me that would be a even stronger proof of concept.

Do you have any recommendations where to find good recipes for breakfast, lunch and dinner (books, websites etc) ?

You make a good point regarding nerve conduction testing.

Somebody asking my advice about recipes has caused much hilarity amongst friends!

I’m afraid I can only cook to village idiot standard! If I had a top tip it would be to make use of a nutri bullet or similar. I blend broccoli, spinach, kale, tomatoes and yellow peppers for example with mixed herbs, jalapeno peppers cayenne pepper, milled flax seed then combine it with a spicy mixed or Taco beans, from the supermarket. 2x 1.5 minutes in the microwave and its done. That ticks a lot of boxes of the daily dozen ( download the app) . I use this as a sauce over baked sweet potato with roast garlic (useful for social distancing) and roast mushrooms.

My typical breakfast is oats with mixed grains ( more box ticking on daily dozen) and stir in cinnamon, milled flax seed, milled chia seed, cacao, walnuts, mixed nuts, blueberries, strawberries and red or black grapes. Flax, chia is full of omega 3, but must be milled or ground to enhance bio availability. I also occasionally add hemp seed and spirulina. That should keep you going! You may need to build up your use of seeds ( and beans) if you are not used to them (see social distancing)

A very good online resource for plant based recipes is this :-


Plant Based Recipes, A Comprehensive Archive | Forks Over Knives


There are countless quick you tube recipes like this…

YouTube


The Documentary film Forks Over Knives is itself is available on Netflix or here.

Forks Over Knives Documentary - Now on Netflix

thanks a lot!

I thought I had replied a couple weeks ago but I guess it didn't go through for some reason. Anyways, a great sources for plant based recipes is Pinterest. I have found many great recipes/ideas there. Also there is a How Not To Die Cookbook. Not sure where you live but so many Markets carry varieties of plant based burgers, pastas, etc. Costco, Trader Joe's, Amazon to name a few.
Atticus, hope your plant based diet is continuing to go well and you are continuing to see improvements. Thanks for those additional resources you posted. I have been on the plant based diet for about 8 weeks now. The neuropathy does come and go and never leaves completely but I do see an overall improvement with this diet and I am optimistic it will continue to improve. As we know nerves heal very slowly. If for no other reason, it's worth changing to a plant based diet just to reduce the environmental footprint on our planet.

My front of right thigh is about totally Numb, and occasional burn/tingle, but Inosine has helped in that regard a lot. My issue is from Anterior Hip replacement surgery in 2010. I rub it a lot thinking I can "wake up" the nerves that were damaged.

Another food source is LeafSide. You can order on their website. Each freeze dried meal has something like 9 of the 12 requirements in Dr. Greger’s checklist. All you do is add water. I just ordered a few - haven’t received them yet so can’t speak to their taste or how much they satisfy hunger but since I am going back to work, I thought I would give them a try. Will report back later.

Wow Leafside sounds fantastic but doesn't seem to be available in the UK. It appears to be endorsed by the Doctor. There are a lot of new Vegan Foods available in The UK, burgers, steaks and sausages etc have popped up in new supermarket sections. In fact there is a Linda McCartney Factory near where I live, but these are all heavily processed foods full of additives and for me do not represent healthy eating. Quorn for example has littlle nutritional value so are empty calories. Leafside, if those foods do retain their nutritional value in manufacture appears to be a game changer. Thanks for the tip, I shall look for a British equivalent.

In terms of PN, I have had a bit of a setback. My symptoms started in January and peaked in April and May. I have seen one doctor for nerve conduction tests which were at the bottom end of normal and have now been referred to the neurologist, but my doctor said there aren't many of them, so its going to take a while yet. But I know what I have; Alcohol Induced Peripheral Neuropathy. I was never an alcoholic but a weekend session drinker. Wheras doctors can't tell me what I have, Stella Artois can! I loaded up with B Vitamins and flooded my system with nutrient packed anti oxidant smoothies before and after some beers, but from the next day my symptoms were back. Not peak symptoms, but symptoms nevertheless.

We live and learn.

I have a weighing scale linked to a phone app so I can tell you I was 82 KG (180lbs) with 22% body fat on February 2nd when I gave up alcohol (a lot of this was visceral fat, I looked slim-ish at 1.8m. (5ft11) I am now 72.5KG (160lbs) with bodyfat of 14.5%. At 56 I have my first ever sixpack! (in favourable lighting conditions!) Due to lockdown and unusually good weather I have the best tan I have ever had so spend a lot of time at the beach with my shirt off! Ok so other people see a scrawny old man but I feel like a god!

Apart from PN symptoms of course. I feel like a fool.

Well, I have tried a couple of the Leafside meals - fresh is definitely better but they are not bad for work lunches or those days when you don't have the ingredients or are just too lazy to cook. And, no nasty additives.
Sorry to hear about your setback Atticus but as you said, we live and learn.
I too suspect my PN is the result of too much indulgence. I too am not an alcoholic and quit very easily as soon as I had (through the process of elimination) my light bulb moment. When I had my last glass of wine (a little over a year ago) I didn't have any adverse reaction but just decided to give up drinking in the event it caused and would continue to affect my PN.
Have your symptom improved since your date with Stella?
Don't be hard on yourself. It takes time to adjust to being a non-drinker.
I will, most likely, have to live with PN symptoms for the rest of my life but I am grateful it is PN and not something worse. It's a wake up call.
The plant based diet has been great. I've lost about 8 pounds and am now down to a number I haven't seen in 30 something years. Thanks to you sharing those links, I am seeing those great results!
Celebrate the positive steps you have taken and don't dwell on a slip up. We ALL have them. And enjoy your Six Pack!!

An interesting video - The book “Minding Your Mitochondria” has been mentioned in another post in this forum. Author, Dr. Terry Wahls
Unfortunately I am unable to add the link (not enough posts) but you can find it on YouTube - Minding Your Mitochondria Terry Wahls TEDx IowaCity.

Hey Jane, great post and very interesting Ted Talk.

Here is the link

Minding your mitochondria | Dr. Terry Wahls | TEDxIowaCity - YouTube

I copied this from Ted Talk comments section:-

Summary of brain healthy nutrients:

These protect the brain: 1:18
Creatine
Fish Oil
co-enzyme Q 10 (coQ10 for short)

Myelin protects the brain, it needs: 2:14
Vitamins:
B1 - thiamine
B9 - folate (folic acid)
B12 - cyanocobalamin
Omega 3 Fatty Acids
Iodine

Neurotransmitters need: 3:06
Sulfur
B6 - pyridoxine

To make mitochondria to thrive: 3:20
B vitamins
sulfur
anti-oxidants

Generalized arguments for a more nutrient rich diet. - 4:08

Where to get these nutrients from food? (~9:00)
9 cups of veg and berries a day before, grain, potatoes, dairy, and meats
3 cups of green leaves - 9:15
kale being a big deal (kale chips, juiced, salad, in soups etc.), parsley, cilantro, dark leafy greens.
3 cups sulfer rich vegetables: - 10:15
The cabbage family (that explains the smell when you cook it) including, cabbage, brussel sprouts, kale, collards, broccoli, cauliflower, turnips, rutabaga, & radishes.
The onion family: onions, garlic, leeks, chives, shallots
Mushrooms and asparagus
3 cups bright colored veg/fruit - 10:54
Colors are high in flavonoids and anti-phenols (antioxidants)
Some veg: Beets, carrots, cabbage (red), peppers (sweet and spicy), etc.
Some fruits: Blueberries, strawberries, peaches, oranges, rasberries, blackberries, etc.
Animal protein profile - 11:25
Daily, unknown quantity:
Wild fish = omega 3 fatty acids = Myelin and straight teeth
Salmon and herring
Grass fed meat
Once a week, unknown quantity:
Organ meats = vitamins, minerals, and coenzyme Q (coQ10)
liver, heart, tongue, gizzard, sweat breads.
Iodine - 12:15
necessary for removing heavy metals
low levels increase cancer risk
Once a week: seaweed - iodine, and selenium


I personally take Omega 3 Algae Oil 100% Vegan Omega 3. ( repeat order on Amazon) Oily fish are full of Omega 3 because they eat Algae. Fish are also full of Mercury and other heavy metals. Algae Oil cuts out the middle man and is heavy metal free. Flaxseed and Chia seed are also loaded with Omega 3. (Ground/milled easier to absorb)

I also take Co Q 10 and Creatine ( see 6 pack vanity above)

Thanks for your posts Jane, very much appreciated.

Atty

Thanks for posting that Atticus and for the vegan omega 3 tip. I also do the ground flaxseed, chia plus I add hemp hearts (which have a good amount of protein) in my smoothies. I discovered a brand of vitamins I have never heard of before on Amazon (Ancestral Supplements). Was thinking of ordering their Grass fed beef heart for the Mitochondrial support. They have very high ratings. If you check it out, let me know your thoughts.

of course...plants have sugar: dates, oranges, grapes, etc., etc., etc. and if you eat fruits that are dehydrated, the sugar is more concentrated.

I intended to write an update on my dietary approach to PN, but I remembered this contribution by Jelinx and I want to comment on this first.


A lot of evidence has shown that excessive intake of added sugar is harmful. No question.
Many people also believe that because added sugars are bad, the same must apply to fruits, which also contain fructose. However, this is a misconception. Fructose is only harmful in large amounts, and it’s difficult to get excessive amounts of fructose from fruit. In addition fruit contains

1. Fibre

Fruits are loaded with fibre, water and have significant chewing resistance.
For this reason, most fruits (like apples) take a while to eat and digest, meaning that the fructose hits the liver slowly. Furthermore the soluble fibre in fruit has a gelling effect in our intestines that slows the release of sugars.

Fibre, especially soluble fibre, has many benefits, including reduced cholesterol levels, slowed absorption of carbs and increased satiety.

Most people will feel satisfied after eating one large apple, which contains 23 grams of sugar, 13 of which are fructose (4).
Compare that to a 16-ounce bottle of Coke, which contains 52 grams of sugar, 30 of which are fructose, and has no nutritional value

2. Phytonutrients

Phytonutrients are natural chemicals or compounds produced by plants. They keep plants healthy, protecting them from insects and the sun. They can be found in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, tea, nuts, beans and spices.

There are fruit phytonutrients that inhibit the transportation of sugars through the intestinal wall into our blood stream. Phytonutrients in foods like apples and strawberries can block some of the uptake of sugars by the cells lining our intestines.

So to conclude, sugars found in fruits are not the same as added sugars found in table sugar and high fructose corn syrup.

The Global Burden of Disease Study published in 2012, is the most comprehensive and systematic analysis of causes of death undertaken to date, involving nearly 500 researchers from more than 300 institutions in 50 countries, and starting with almost 100,000 data sources. What did the researchers find? In the U.S., they determined that the biggest killer was diet. Number 1 on their list of the most important dietary risks was not eating enough fruit, responsible for an estimated 4.9 million deaths a year around the world. Number 2, incidentally was smoking.


This is a short informative video

We Shouldn't Eat Sugar Including Fruit? - YouTube

Hi All, I thought I would follow up on the effects a whole food plant based diet has had on my sfn. Unfortunately for me I don’t see any improvement in my symptoms. They have progressed slightly. That is not to say that a plant based diet is not good for people with sfn, I believe it depends on the cause of one’s neuropathy. Mine may be linked to alcohol consumption and that might be the reason I am not seeing progress. Perhaps more time is needed so I am going to stay the course but wanted to give an update for anyone out there that might be following this thread. Wishing you all the best.

I'm 80 years old and have suffered with Chronic Idiopathic Polyneuropathy (CIP) for 30 years. I believe in and have adopted a strict plant based diet, but my symptoms didn't improve until I got some help from my PCP. Researchers have found no cause of CIP but have found it gets worse with age. Oh great! My PCP prescribed high doses of Gabapenti and a psychiatrist put me on Remeron to help me sleep at night and Xanax. It has been a godsend when it goes crazy throughout my body. I rarely take more than one mg a day. I also found a Chinese herb called Corydalis to be helpful.

Wade Senior, I agree, a plant based diet is very beneficial for our health. I am sorry you have had to endure so much for so many years and happy to hear that you found some relief. This is a dreadful disease we have to deal with. Thank God there are options when we need them. Thanks for the information.

Well a plant based diet isn't for everyone particularly if you believe that protein is the golden egg that the food industry want you to believe it is. Such is the power of the word 'Protein' you can label any rubbish "High Protein" and sell it as a health food to anyone who doesn't bother to validate it themselves.

In addition the meat industry drip feeds us from childhood the belief that meat is nutrient dense when it is the opposite.

Animal-based protein such as eggs, cow’s milk, meat, and fish contain adequate amounts of all nine essential amino acids, making them complete proteins. Many plant-based foods, such as soybeans, chia and hemp seeds, spinach, and quinoa are also complete protein sources. Although many plant-based foods are considered complete proteins, some plant based foods may be deficient in one or more essential amino acids. These are known as complementary proteins. Complementary proteins can be combined throughout the day so that if one food is low in one essential amino acid, the deficit can be made up with another food. A variety fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, whole grains, and legumes throughout the day will provide sufficient protein. In fact, the right plant-based foods are actually healthier sources of protein than animal products since they usually contain fewer calories, less fat, no cholesterol, more fibre and more nutrients (like potassium, iron, magnesium, folate, and vitamins A and C)

Excess animal protein is linked with kidney disease, osteoporosis, cancers, type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Animal products, even lean-looking meats, are often associated with large amounts of saturated fat and cholesterol.

There is strong evidence to suggest it is excess protein per se which plays a part in all of these diseases.


The average adult needs to consume between 45 and 56 grams of protein per day.To give you a comparison between some meat and plant based products, a standard 50g beef burger contains 10.2g of protein; half a 415g can of baked beans contains 11.5g of protein; an average serving of pasta (190g cooked) contains 8.5g, an average serving of kidney beans (160g cooked) 12.4g.


The myth that we should eat more protein dates back to the beginning of the last century. The majority view back then was that health – and especially fitness – depended on eating generous amounts of protein, particularly meat (Millward, 2004). It was even reckoned that animal protein was the solution to wiping out child malnutrition in the third world (Autret, 1963; Gounelle de Pontanel, 1972; Stillings, 1973; Scrimshaw and Young, 1976).

The myth reached epic heights in the 1960s. A UN report was published which identified worldwide protein deficiency. It called for a ‘global strategy to avert the impending protein crisis’. International aid began to focus on projects to address the so-called protein gap. The US government, for example, subsidised the production of dried milk powder to provide high-quality protein for the world’s poor (Campbell and Campbell, 2005).

But not everyone accepted that protein was the most important nutrient of all. Wartime studies in the UK by Widdowson and McCance found that orphanage children grew faster than the general population when they ate a bread-based diet, with only a small fraction (14 per cent) of their protein coming from milk products. And the orphanage children grew no faster when nearly half of their protein was from milk! Bread provided the children with plenty of energy to support their growth, whilst meeting more than double their protein needs (Millward, 2004).

Insufficient protein in a plant based diet is a myth. But it's a belief that's widely held and despite scientific evidence its something that people just 'feel' to be true.
I consider it as successful marketing from the meat and dairy industry.

There is one thing that vegans and vegetarians do need to supplement with--
 

--and that is vitamin B12, which is essential and which the human body cannot break out of non-animal sources, unlike some of our animal cousins. We simply do not have the proper stomach or intestinal length to do that.

So, while I agree that human beings are often encouraged to consume too much protein in general and too many animal products in particular, anyone who is not having any animal products in the diet--and that includes dairy products and eggs--needs to supplement with B12, preferably a methylcobalamin or adenosylcobalamin form, in case one has genetic problems with the methylation cascade: there are fewer metabolic hoops for the cobalamin to jump through when taken in these forms as opposed to the standard cyanocobalamin form usually sold (and you don't want cyanide radicals running around your body anyway).

B12 deficiency is common even among carnivores as they get older--our levels of intrinsic factor noticeably decline with age--and vegans and vegetarians really do need to supplement from the get-go.

Thanks for your input. Your knowledge is extraordinary. I thought I'd discussed B12 earlier in the thread, maybe it was elsewhere, so thank you.
B12 supplementation as far as I am aware should be at the heart of all self therapy for Peripheral Neuropathy whatever diet you are on. However as you point out there are few Plant Based sources of B12 (due to decreasing soil quality.) We cannot make B12. Meats and milks of herbivorous ruminant animals are good sources of B12 for humans. Ruminants acquire their B12 through a symbiotic relationship with bacteria inside their microbiomes. B12-producing bacteria are located in ruminant stomachs.

These are common Plant Based sources of B12 that I am aware of and my experience of them.

Nutritional Yeast.
Algae/seaweed.
Fortified Plant Milk (soy, almond, coconut, rice)
Fortified breakfast cereals.
Tempeh.
Mushrooms.

I sprinkle Nutritional Yeast on my food that is fortified with B12. I sprinkle Mara Seaweed and also Green Nori ( sea vegetable condiments) Unusually for Vegan Food all of these taste nice! The latter are also rich in Iodine, an element Vegans can be low in. I don't touch plant milks or breakfast cereals but I do add Spirulina to my porridge. I take Algae Oil Vegan Omega 3 DHA and EPA because a Plant Based diet can be low in Omega 3. My experience with Tempeh is tiny. I eat mushrooms regularly. I consider them superfoods.

This video covers B12 and a Plant Based Diet.

I personally take 1000ug of methyl cobalamin daily

What foods contain vitamin B12? | NutritionFacts.org

Just hearing a favorite MD on my radio and a woman called in about the severe P.N. and he asked her all the questions, did you do nerve systems etc and she said yes, and doc had given her gabapentin which she didn't like and got off it and then he gave her cymbalta and said "this is an anti depressant and got off it.

My doc said "get off most of the carbs/sugars and that will start with the changes needed.

The woman was clueless as she didn't hear any of this info from her MD. When asked what A1C number is she said 5.9, the doc said too high.

You people know all this but good repeating.

Just thought I'd chime in a little on my experience with a 7 1/2 year battle with idiopathic full body neuropathy. While I still don't know the exact underlying cause, I do know that with 100% certainty what goes in my mouth directly affects the severity of my symptoms.

I think there's little doubt at this point that my body is producing histamine in response to whatever it is I eat that it finds offensive now, and isolating the "whatever it is" has been a great challenge, but I've dramatically improved my symptoms avoiding the things I know are involved now.

I've had a full allergy work-up, and the only thing of interest that showed up was a high histamine level in my blood. I don't have any food allergies that resulted in an IgE response.

The fact that my problem is food-related is also why my symptoms worsened during the day, and I always felt best in the morning (and when I fasted).

While I'm still symptomatic, I'm at least relieved that I have some control over the severity of my symptoms.

janie

I'm realizing more and more being constipation keeps neuropathy going. I've worked on constipation all my life and at 82 and getting older and now dealing with neuropathy from hip replacement surgery and other stuff...cleaning up the diet, eating more bran (oat bran added to soups) and now with the addition of a stool softener when I go to bed, the neuropathy is so much less.

Constipation, Distended stomach, Numbness or tingling and Numbness or tingling: Common Related Medical Conditions

Think about this if neuropathy is stubborn, clean out the colon. Get rid of lots of sugars too, but the stool softener is just what might be needed...

Hey Janieg ,

I would like to hear more of your story and what foods you feel help you and what foods make things worse for you.
This is a thread about diet and PN after all and your experience and knowledge will be most welcome. Have you tried intermittent fasting?

Atty

Hi CMTMatt, Each to their own, but I have to say that it's absolutely possible to get enough protein eating a plant based diet. At first I was sceptical as well, but once I got into a different mindset with the groceries I was buying and the types of meals I was preparing and making sure I was getting enough variety, it becomes second nature.

An interesting situation happened to me over the past 6 weeks. I'm on a treatment for an illness and need to have extensive blood tests etc. contantly. For the past year I've been on this treatment I have not experienced any problems with my blood tests. Then I decided to add a protein powder to my daily intake. I wanted to see if that would make me feel a little stronger. 3 weeks after adding that protein powder to my diet twice a day my AST and ALT became raised. Having raised LFTs while on this treatment could be extremely dangerous and would mean I would have to stop and that's frankly just not an option right now. In searching PubMed for further information about protein powders I came across other instances where people had become ill from eating added protein even at quite minimal amounts.

Using process of elimination, my oncologist suggested I stop the protein powder and see what happens. So, back to the oncologist last Monday and all my tests were normal. We had a conversation about diet and protein and he said that if a diet is well balanced, there should never be any problem with getting enough protein whether a person is vegetarian like myself or if they're eating plant based only.

I can honestly say that every person I actually know personally who eats no animal protein seems extremely mindful of the extra nutrients they may need i.e. B12, Iron, Calcium, Zinc, and others.

Obviously there are situations when people should not change their diets and it's always a good idea to ask for professional guidance especially if they have certain illnesses. I didn't do that myself and I had no illness at the time I changed my diet. In more recent times I've always made my medical specialists aware.

Added: Main point for me just to clarify is that I was already getting more than enough protein from my vegetarian diet. I should not have added the powder supplement so please be aware. :)

Hi Atty,

Sorry for the delay in responding. I thought I had notifications turned on for this thread, but didn't.

I've really, really struggled with figuring what foods are my triggers...and figuring it out by trial and error.. But to answer your intermittent fasting question, I kind of do that by default. I've never been a breakfast person, so not eating for 16 hours isn't hard.

I try to avoid or minimize all of the following:

- overly salty food
- any aged, smoked or processed meat
- leftover meat
- canned food
- non-homecooked food

Basically, I try to eat fresh food (low in histamine) with minimal salt. That's what helps me most, and I have no explanation for why salt may be involved.

One thing that is really abnormal about me that I apparently just got used to is that I will often get congested after I eat something savory. This was huge clue that histamine was at play, but I completely missed it. Of course the ramp of neuro systems followed.

Because histamine is inflammatory, I've been a flaming ball of fire for 7 1/2 years. A sinister side effect of it (I think and hope) is that I've developed inflammatory nodules in my lungs that are growing. I've had a biopsy that came back "non-diagnostic," which means there was no obvious sign of cancer, but it still could be. (My dad died of lung cancer at 42 which is a complicating piece of data.) The thoracic surgeon wanted to go in right away and remove the largest of the nodules so a better pathology could be done on it, but I've begged for another 3 months so I can continue doing everything I can to reduce the inflammation and maybe get the nodules to start decreasing in size. I feel so much better, that I'm hoping that's happening. We'll find out when I have next CT scan.

Needless to say, I'm very motivated to watch what I eat, take ever anti-inflammatory supplement I can think of, exercise religiously (which I hadn't been doing), and also take digestive enzymes before I eat anything because maybe, just maybe, it will help.

All I can do is cross my fingers on that.

Thanks for the heads up on this. I'm moving to more of a plant-based diet and just bought some protein power. :rolleyes:

Hi janieg,
Looking back I think I was overdosing and my body is in a constant state of inflammation long term now from the immunotherapy I'm on as well. Still doing well off the extra protein on the LFTs so that's all good again now and it was the only thing that changed.

There are so many variables healthwise and so many different types of powders. I was obviously getting way too much on a daily basis for those weeks that I supplemented. You're already in the process of eliminating other foods, so try not to change too many things at once so that you can figure out what's affecting you. If you do end up needing extra protein because you can't get it in your diet, then make sure you get pure products that are plant based and look into any additives that may be in them. Stick to directions.

Added salt is a no no for me as it activates my restless leg syndrome at night (a common thing apparently) and also affects the neuropathy in my feet.

All the best to you with your nodules. I had a mediastinal lymph node that was biopsied and they made several passes to get several samples. It was not in position to be removed easily. ick. Thoracic surgeon said no sign of anything except lymph tissue. Oncologist said it's basically inconclusive as they only have the several passes and not the whole lymph node and as I already had other pos nodes and tumours at the time, it was treated as positive. Go figure. Gone now.

You've got a lot going on. Good luck with sorting out your diet. I'm sure Atticus can help with that. He seems to have a wealth of knowledge regarding plant based dietary needs.

I have had lung nodules for 17 years now. after 14 years i had a mediastinal biopsy and it turned out i had sarcoidosis, which had spread all over my chest and abdomen. It turned out that sarcoidosis was also the cause of my peripheral neuropathy, Since you have peripheral neuropathy also make sure your nodule is tested for that,if you do have the biopsy done.

i wouldnt recommend waiting to get the biopsy, it may give you some peace of mind and if it does turn out to be cancer, the sooner you address it the better.

Hey janieg,

Thanks for your reply. I wasn't aware of the link between histamine and PN. I have found the links below online which may be of benefit to you and other readers. But I can't help thinking the advice from echoes long ago is the most important.
Sorry for my ignorance here and the first link below shows the sheer complexity of histamine in the body, but can't anti histamines help you?

https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....nerve%20injury.

Antihistamines for Nerve Pain?

Diamine Oxidase (DAO): Benefits, Dosage, and Safety

I wish you well and keep us posted of your progress.

Atty