Herd Immunity Points
 

I've been hearing Herd Immunity is the way to go...many believe go that way and many do not. Just talking to a longtime RN friend last week and today and she believes Herd Immunity is the way to go. She has been hit with Crohns and some cancers in her later years, and takes all the Immune System builders she can and is sick and tired of the fear and masks and being told to stay home.

To continue on the way we are, masks, lockdowns, etc etc etc can go on and on and on.... People NEED to get on with their lives and work to mop up the damage already done to their lives.... I'm fortunate overall, as I'm retired and not losing businesses and schooling children, etc....

Here is what AARP says about Herd Immunity.

Experts on The Prospects for Herd Immunity and COVID-19

And I'm sure there will be both sides of this Herd Immunity on this forum.

If you read that article you linked you would see in section 5
They also clearly explain how very difficult it is to obtain herd immunity without a vaccine......
In fact, the article you linked actually does not support the comments you made Caroline.

To read more please go to
Experts on The Prospects for Herd Immunity and COVID-19

I read the link again and I lean to #3, but will read it again. If and when a vaccine is available, people who take vaccines should do this one too. I have not taken any vaccines for 40 yrs probably and no flu in all those years and what little flu I might have been close to I've nipped with Oscillo homeopathy med. I rely on my own natural immune system which I feed very well.

They will be adding the preservatives they do to vaccines and we can probably count on aluminum being one of them grrrrrrrrrrrrr

You "lean to #3" ????

Quoting from there: Herd immunity by natural infection is simply not a realistic goal in this COVID pandemic.

It really is important for us to maintain an accurate approach to a very very serious global situation. Our opinions may differ, but the facts do not.

another factor.. They are not sure how long covid immunity might last for people.
We still don’t know what COVID-19 immunity means or how long it lasts | Science News

[Two new studies demonstrate how severity of disease is predictive of longer-lasting antibody production and detail how immunity wanes over time but may exist for up to 7 months.]
Studies show long-term COVID-19 immune response | CIDRAP

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) | CDC

CDC COVID Data Tracker

Several vaccines are at an advanced (Phase 3) stage of clinical trials.

Probably more the one will be needed before any get regulatory approval (by the Therapeutic Goods Administration here), similar in other countries.

As others have pointed out, ideally several criteria should be met.

From Mayo Clinic and good points....if a person deals with major health issues and a weak immune system, then more care needs to be taken by that person(s). If you are sick, stay home for goodness sake.

Herd immunity and COVID-19 (coronavirus): What you need to know - Mayo Clinic

Again, I choose the great Vit C, Vit D, Zinc and my faithful Grape Seed Extract to keep myself going good.

Even if and when a vaccine hits the population, I will not take it.

Caroline, a lot of what you say is so confusing to me.

I don't understand why you are advocating "Herd Immunity" when you mention you wouldn't take a vaccine anyway.

There are only 2 ways to get herd immunity. One is natural infection and the other vaccination if and when that becomes safely available. That though is reliant on majority of population having said vaccine. I certainly wouldn't be happy having it considering how rushed it's all been either.

If you're actually advocating gaining Herd immunity naturally by infection, it is in my opinion morally and ethically wrong. If you are advocating it so strongly and would refuse a vaccination anyway then why not move to Sweden. We can learn much from them regarding natural herd immunity. Not any of it good.

Just the name itself... herd. Lambs to the slaughter comes to mind.

Lara: I just talked to my RN friend I mentioned in #1 above... And Herd Immunity is hard to explain totally and complex too, but bottom line as Jean says and I agree: Going out and doing one's life and IF they are exposed to the Covid19, many do not get sick, and MOST do not die, and it all goes back to keeping our immune systems STRONG....and if and when a vaccine is brought out to those who want and NEED it, that could help with Herd.... And again no guarantees with even vaccines.

The fearing continues and from the very beginning I was not in a huge fear as again my immune system....I am really disappointed on all the closures and job losses, stresses from all that and a lot more, but I feel strongly that I'm OK. Plus, I do not go out a lot anyway, from long before Covid due to damaged body from hip replacement and advanced OA. The officials just didn't know how to go with all this hysteria and I can only believe they did what they thought was best with this NEW Covid19.....19 I understands means 2019...

I am hearing all day now about the new vaccine that may be coming soon, but I heard of one before too and it fell thru. And if and when the health workers may be first in line, old and sick people perhaps next etc etc/...... Young people basically are 1000% stronger than the oldies....

Maybe I'm clear, I hope a little more.

Lara -- and thinking about my own life...I had the smallpox vaccination to enter 1st grade, we all needed that vaccination back then... And I don't think we've had a small pox epidemic in our lives.... And too even with vaccinations, please can still get issues, like the regular flu. My daughter was about to give her little one a measles vac when the little girl got the measles and my daughter was happy she did/..... We all had those childhood diseases and MOST of us lived on and on.

I wonder if my parents who both died in their 90's ever had childhood vaccinations, if they even had them back in 1915 or so when my parents would have entered 1st grade.....thinking on all the history.

Caroline, smallpox is now extinct in the wild because of a world-wide vaccination program. That is why people no longer get vaccinated against it (vaccination against it ceased about 50 years ago).

I see no reason to doubt that vaccination against another infectious and often lethal virus (Covid-19) will be different.

My father was born in 1902 and I distinctly recall his smallpox vaccination scar. It looked much larger than mine and wasn't on the arm--it may have been on his leg but I can't recall. Anyway, they had smallpox vaccinations even back then. My mother had one too (born 1903).

Just talking to another person on another group and he has heard a lot about Herd Immunity and he's kinda under impression everyone would die and I tried to explain to him also, that this too, millions of us could have the coronavirus in our bodies and don't know it and keep going. So much of the fear instilled in the people is probably doing so much damage to our immune systems to begin with......think on that....

Mine were born in 09 and 10 and don't recall the vaccination scares or talk from them. But it's interesting for me., and my smallpox vac in about 1943 to get in school, I had a pretty big scab on my arm for a while and then it went away for years and left a mark and then about 10+ yrs ago a big brown scab formed in that area and it's been there for over 10 yrs and I use oils on it and can rub some of it off, but it's there...and wonder what that is all about.....it does not hurt so I don't go to docs about it. Feel it's part of the vaccine ...

Vaccination for small pox ended in 1972 when it was eradicated in the USA.

Kitt

It was 1798 when the small pox vaccination came about. My scar is on my upper thigh. It hurt when it was done. Of course I wasn't born back then. :)

Kitt

What do you have against the Swedish approach? What country's approach is the best? The US? The first lockdown in the UK hasn't worked and we are in a second lockdown. Surely we are just delaying the inevitable that we will have to face the virus instead of hiding from it. The survival rate from Covid is now 99%. The average age of death with Covid is 82 in UK that's actually higher than without covid. People die when they are elderly of a variety of causes and the death rate caused by Covid is grossly exaggerated.

One only has to look at the Post Vaccine Neuropathy Rabies thread to see the complications of vaccines. I am very wary of such a quickly produced vaccine particularly one that has undergone no long term testing.

I think suggesting Caroline moves to Sweden is a little disrespectful. ** She is a sweet and kind and well meaning lady. We should all be Camerados at this difficult time and look out for each other.

I wasn't being disrespectful or infantile, but thanks for telling me I am. I think that was exceptionally rude of you. btw, Sweden was the example I used for herd immunity because it would allow her to do everything she advocates and just get on with life without all the inconveniences of masks which apparently can potentially cause cancer she said.

Caroline wants herd immunity without taking a vaccine herself either as far as I can tell. I am totally confused by what she has been advocating and she's certainly not looking after me or you or anyone else with her approach. She's looking after herself. She has said that.

My whole point of the past two threads was that people need to be looking after each other.

I don't live in the USA, I am Australian and I totally stand by my comments.

We don't expect people to always agree....but calling someone "Infantile" for expressing their opinion is a flame, and in itself, actually the most "disrespectful" thing said on this thread, also violating our guidelines.

Rather than try to keep editing it out of the quoted post and response, it may be best to just lock this thread now.

Hoping everyone stays safe