b12 and my dad's insistence on extra vitamins being excreted through the urine
 

My dad(a nurse) recently tried to convince me that extra vitamin b12 or vitamins for that matter are excreted through the urine. So that this thing about building up your stores is false. please tell me what I can say to my dad to convince him that this is not true, cuz i believe it is not.

Oh yes, and recently I purchased lifefitness' rapid energy chewing gum, that contains vitamin b12, it doesn't go into specifics as to what vitamin b12 is in there, but I'm gonna guess it's cyancobalamin, cuz I mean they rarely ever use methyl. But whatever the case is, it's very convenient for energy on the go, and is better than caffeine for me.

Some..
 

B12 is stored in the liver for future use. This is why there is a delay in deficiency symptoms when stomach acid fails. People use these stores when B12 is not in the diet or being absorbed normally. It is thought this storage can last up to 5 years under good conditions.

Folate can be stored in the liver for short periods in amounts approximately of 7mg.

Vit C and other B's can be stored for short periods in the body. Some B6 is stored in muscles as pyridoxal. (liver and kidney are the two most common storage places for C and other Bs.)

Excesses that the body does not need are excreted thru the urine, of the water soluble vits. (B's and C). How much depends on the dose taken, and how much the body needs at that time.

Urinary excretion for water soluble vitamins prevents long term toxicity from developing. However if a person consumes more than 500mg of B6 a day, this may become toxic inspite of the urinary excretion. There is no known toxic dose for B12.

hello -
 

there must be a rule stated that is true for all we ingest for example: -

when you drink and eat -
there is a process of digesting and the body takes the nutrients -vitamins and minerals out of the ingested food, and it is actually from our intestinal tract the body with its enzymes and amino acids and the intestines must have friendly bacterial flora -
then
what we do not need is excreted through urine and
our bowels -

so then is there no need for food or water?

yes - if we do not eat or drink we will die...
also the soil of which most of the non organic food is grown -
the farmers are suppose to let the soil rest for several years -so it can become enriched with minerals,
the farmers are not doing this...and therefore
this has caused our bodies harm because the food has no real nutrtion in it and then you add all the chemicals
that are in the soil ...

then you look around this world and wonder why anyone is well?

here is great information of a man who had cancer

Real healing comes from within.

Let food be your medicine.

If there are any miracles, the body's immune system must surely be one. The body's ability to protect itself from disease, to regulate the conditions of it's own health, and to repair and regenerate infected or damaged cells within itself without outside help is a true miracle. Finding out how the body does it has always been the greatest challenge to science.

What is known is that there are at least eight specific saccarides involved in intercellular communication within the body - a system of networking that governs the immune system. This means that every cell in the body, every gland or organ, as well as the cells of the blood, are linked within the immune system through these saccarides. Everything in the body depends to some degree on these molecules, and when any of them are missing the immune system does not function at full capacity.

You do not have to have a total understanding of the workings of your immune system to stay healthy. Your immune system is doing its job, whether or not you understand it. All you need to do is to adopt a proper lifestyle to allow your immune system to function, and to ensure that your body receives what it needs to bolster it's disease prevention capabilities.

You cannot buy good health from the doctor; you have to build it for yourself!

Why do we have all these cravings for coffee, potato chips, chocolate, coke, alcohol? Why do so many people gain weight so easily?

Michael O'Brien, MD is a noted lecturer and product formulator in the nutritional industry. His tremendous wealth of knowledge of the nutritional field, coupled with continuous research, places him in a unique position to address the real conditions that lead to obesity and degenerative diseases. He places great importance on the digestive processes and proper colon health. Michael O'Brien was instrumental in giving Dr. Bernard Jensen a second chance to live - victory over cancer and paralysis.

O'Brien simplifies an explanation of the process:

To utilize minerals, we need essential fatty acids; to utilize the essential fatty acids we need protein; to utilize the proteins we need enzymes and friendly flora (good bacteria). It's a chain of events, each component critical to the whole process. If the body isn't getting the protein it needs, it takes it from the body, mainly from the muscles, and we gain fat (weight) faster.

Enzymes are killed at 120 degrees Celsius. With all the processed and cooked foods we ingest, there are no live enzymes. Since our body cannot utilize most of the food we eat because of the lack of live enzymes, it doesn't get the proteins, vitamins and minerals we need, and we don't have much energy. This is the reason we have all these cravings for coffee, coke, chocolate or carbohydrates - they give us energy quickly. Our body is starving and it needs a quick fix, even when this causes weight gain and is deadly in the long run.

Friendly flora (good bacteria) work in conjunction with natural enzymes as a necessary part of the biological process of digestion. Friendly floras are the "soldiers", deactivating viruses and enhancing the immune system. They distribute minerals to every organ in the body. Due to chlorinated water and modern drug-based antibiotics, the friendly bacteria populations in our bodies have been greatly diminished. Repopulating our intestinal tract with natural, friendly bacteria is of paramount importance to our health.

Protein: Out of the whole plant kingdom, hemp seed has the closest nutritional profile to the human plasma, and is the only plant that is made up mostly of the globulin protein Edestin, the backbone of our cells' DNA.

Essential amino acids and Omega 6 and Omega 3 Essential Fatty Acids: "Essential" means that the body does not make it and must get it from food. Hemp also has abundant Vitamin E antioxidants. The oil is the most stable and balanced of all plant oils, not turning into trans fatty acids at 350ºC. It has a natural SPF of 15 and is the only vegetable oil that goes directly through all seven layers of the skin.

As you consume these nutrients, you will notice the disappearance of cravings for meat and stimulants such as processed sugars, pasta, breads, caffeine, alcohol and drugs. These foods' related negative effects like anxiety and depression will subside.

When you start to provide your body with the essential nutrition it needs, the rejuvenation of your genetic structure is immediate, because the main cleansing organ, the liver, is now receiving the protein and enzyme fuel it requires to perform its more than 600 functions: removing toxins, making glucose, and balancing the endocrine system

http://www.shesacancersurvivor.com/h...l/feeding.html

a link to the rest of the story
 

There's also a reason why if this really worked and really cured everything or even cured some anxiety or depression, everyone would be doing it, let's face it, for some reason our body's got used to these foods that aren't nutritious, but taste really good, and made the necessary changes in our system to adjust to this type of consumption(instead of hunting or eating meat and vegetables like the olden days.) or maybe our body really is suited to eating meat and vegetables.

and another thing to note is, everyone is different every one's body is different, there's a reason why some people survive and do not develop life threatening symptoms or are in any way affected by some viruses that happen to be in their body. as quoted in the road less traveled:

"An increasing number of thinkers are beginning to suggest that almost all health disorders are psychosomatic...there is a force, a mechanism of which we don't fully understand, that seems to operate routinely in most people to protect and encourage physical health even in adverse conditions."

B12 issues from the field
 

Though new to the forum, I saw this thread on B12 and had to comment... This is one of the most common problems in my elderly patients (I'm an ophthalmologist). It is massively under-diagnosed in the US because our "normals" are too low. All of us have problems absorbing B12 as we age and I would hazard to guess that most of our population is B12 deficient as we pass about 45... I have checked hundreds and hundreds of 70-80 year olds with pale optic nerves, etc. When their levels are checked by their family doctor, they are often told they are "normal" even though they are below 400... This is simply wrong and they always have more energey, feel better, etc., when placed on IM B12. There is not a good oral solution to this (there is a new sublingual or intra-nasal for B12, but very very expensive - IM is dirt cheap). Doctors rebel against giving the stuff as they are paid nothing and the insurance system will deny that it is necessary...

In Peace and Hope...

Nice to see a doc on here! Welcome
 

There is a good product oral...it must be used daily and on an empty stomach.
It affords passive absorption of about 10%...

It is not expensive:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails....1&pid=129&at=0
for maintenance

higher dose to start:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails....1&pid=117&at=0

Sublingual is rather a sham, most of the B12 in sublinguals is swallowed with
the saliva.

Typically 5mg daily for about 2-3 mons followed by 1mg daily thereafter.
Methylcobalamin is preferred..this is the biologically active form.
cyano is synthetic and requires activation in 4 steps which also may fail
in the elderly.

New members here would do well to read this forum historically..there is much valuable information to be had here.

Can you explain this a little more? I have seen many firm advocates of sublingual screaming from the rooftops but none of them have medical backgrounds.

Also, in regard to toxicity, I was under the impression that while there is no problem with methylcobalamin B12, that cyanocobalamin can be toxic in large doses. Is this not the case? :confused:

over the years...
 

I've read many claims about sublingual/buccal absorption. Also many papers.

What I see is that sublingual/buccal route is very iffy. It is not suited to many types of compounds, and requires TIME ...
This paper, gives some parameters for it..and you can see how complex it is.
http://www.ualberta.ca/~csps/JPPS1(1...ccalreview.htm

We do not see RX drug dosage forms commonly for this route. Fentanyl immediate release, nitro, some nicotine lozenges are basically it. This is because to get reliable absorption is not easy.

I don't see ANY OTC manufacturer spending any $$ to create bioavailability studies for any vitamin used sublingually. The FDA does not demand it, and therefore it is not done. Studies have shown that swallowed B12 taken daily, will improve blood levels in time as well as IM injections.
Here are other examples comparing oral vs sublingual:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

and this:
What IS important is that taking an oral dose should be done on an empty stomach... because microgram doses of anything are not absorbed well with food present. (also goes for thyroid replacement and digoxin treatment).

There have been rare individuals who react to the cyanide portion of the cyanocobalamin. But that is not common. This was demonstrated in patients with Leber's optic neuritis. This is thought to be due to a genetic failure in handling cyanide.

Mrs. D.,

I also have a question. :)

My B12 levels were fine when tested; something like 800+. But I wonder why it is every time I take any form of B or B Complex WHY it makes me sooo sleepy. It happens every time I try it and always has. When I stop it, the tiredness or fatigue goes away. Is there an explanation anywhere about this? Thanks!