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ballerina:
thanks for the response and suggestions. I'm certainly open to hearing anything. your statement about my set up is a good one -- I've tested my set up with multimeter is, etc. -- and that all is working properly. the part that confuses me -- I get sleep disturbance -- which kind of indicates that maybe I'm too far forward towards the forehead in my electrode placement (i.e. near or on the DPLFC - which is reported in many research papers to disturb sleep) -- but then when I measure - that's not what the measurements indicate..... ///////// |
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A thought has crossed my mind which may or may not have any relevance but in your post you mentioned despite your hunch you might be placing the electrodes in the wrong area your measurements would suggest you are not. My question is since everyone is different which includes our anatomy then is it possible certain parts of your brain may not be placed in what is usually considered the norm? Regardless, hang in there. :hug:Joydee |
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But it's a valid point...maybe try adjusting the electrode placement slightly and see if it helps. Not like it's going to hurt you and if the sleep disturbances stop then you have your answer and measurements be darned. |
TDCS with DC waveform i also find some study where use theta-TDCS to cause a change in brain rythm.May it can be posible use similar apoach in the CRPS to restore a natural barinwave pattern in cortex area.But this need litle more advanced device capable to deliver specific waveform (similar to CES but with dirrect current may can be used porgramable CES device with diode to block lower part of wave).I try to build it with MP3 player and few other parts.
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Just a little update on my own progress with the tDCS treatments. I've been doing this new protocol for 2 weeks now and I am very happy with the progress. The reduction in the pain has been consistent in my hands and arms (went from a 6-8 normally down to I would say a 4-6) and the allydonia (in my hands and arms) is also greatly reduced. I am wearing the gloves less and less (though I still keep them with me all the time just in case) and I also haven't been having the freezing/stiffness in them at all for the past week and a half.
Now...I did have what COULD have been a very bad setback a couple days ago. I was riding in the car, we were stopped at a stop sign...and we got rear ended. Oh my lord...that jolt! I thought I was going to die. I had a very similar experience with a jolt like that in the car last year and it sent me into a flare for a week. Well...as the day went on the pain got worse, started in my back and neck, went to my shoulders and down my arms. My back and neck were so stiff and in so much pain I could not even turn them at all. When we got home I set to work, pulling out the heating pads (one for my neck, one for my back), attached some lidoderm patches (one to each forearm), and plopped myself down in front of a spaceheater for a good hour until I felt like I could was getting the range of motion back in my neck and body. My ankle...surprisingly didn't seem affected by the accident this time but I had the TENS unit on at the time pretty high...and it was my back that got REALLY jolted against the back of the seat. Anyway...followed all this up with a hot bath with epsom salts at the end of the night and ultrasound therapy on my arms and shoulders. The next morning I took another hot bath with epsom salts and just did the normal routine that I start every day with and aside from a slight ache in my back still...the pain was essentially at normal levels. I couldn't believe it...I was on edge all day waiting for the flare to hit me again...but it didn't. I continued all my normal stuff throughout the day and this morning I feel completely back to "normal". I am amazed. I definitely feel that this is related to the tDCS treatments because before the smallest things could cause flares and something like this really would have lasted a week or so. But it didn't. Just a couple of hours really of the bad intense flare (swelling, pain, temp changes, etc) and with just pulling out my "flare kit" and responding to it with all my normal stuff it just melted away. And the achiness the next day was likely not really related to the RSD at all but more just stiffness from the actual accident itself. So yay for tDCS and dodging a bullet with this flare. I was so scared that this would set me back a lot but instead I am free to keep plugging along as usual and working on all the things that I am trying to accomplish. Hope this can give everyone some hope. I'm going to continue using this protocol and look forward to hopefully more improvements in the future. Take care everyone. |
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To my absolute astonishment, just the usual pain that one might expect. Slight swelling, which is now gone. Just a bit achy now. No return of color changes or allodynia. NONE!!!!!! I didn't want to post until I was sure but couldn't wait after reading yours! We know where we are now and where we have been. I wonder how long it will be before doctors routinely use tDCS for any abnormal response to pain, thus preventing CRPS in the first place. If it can prevent spreads it must be able to prevent the cycle that perpetuates CRPS in the first place. Now Catra we need to get the word out to the newly diagnosed. So Happy for you! |
Like you, I wanted to wait until I knew for sure since I kept expecting the bad flare to come, but when I woke up this morning with just my regular pain and not even the ache anymore I felt it was safe to share. I am really looking forward to sharing my progress with the doctor next time I see her.
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still here
Hello everybody, just letting you all know I'm still here
Have had terrible few weeks, really struggling to keep head above water Thanks so much to all of you for your kind support, Ballarenia,Voner,Catra, Orlin, and everyone else. Reason for my delay is I simply haven't had the funds, just enough to feed myself, barely scraping by, but I'm speaking to a really brilliant gifted inventor who might yet save my life, I'll let you all know...the research on tDCS that Ballerina has passed on to me and Voner is still very important for applying to this other technology, I'll share and let you know more as I know more..it could indeed help/enhance your own journeys to wellness. Take care everybody |
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So very sorry that thing are getting worse for you. Please do not be taken in by desperation. Does this inventor happen to be the one who is claiming to crank out a similar device for $99.00? |
keeping faith
Hi Ballerina,
I wouldn't dream of going for any device other than that recommended by you, believe me I wouldn't want to cut corners like that. I am in a tight spot but will eventually follow your lead. In meantime, the exceptionally decent guy I refer to who knows of my plight has kindly loaned me a unit for trial. It's just cleared UK customs. I'm so very sensitive at moment I just want to let you know more details after I start using it. I have got a ton of respect/faith in what you have achieved, just give me time to see how it goes. Thanks for being so kind and supportive, people like me really value it. Never been in such desperate straits in all my life. Nick |
It is so nice to see that you are getting better and taking hold of your life, no matter what.
tDCS activates more neurons, so this is why it feels like you have more energy. Your chemical levels of energy are still the same, yet your brain is working at (what people would consider normal speed) overdrive. The good thing is that it is only part of your brain working on overdrive. Keep up the good work and the cm's, Steve Quote:
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Or inches (cm's=inches...)
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Hi
Do u think this would work on Lower limb rsd?
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Ty
How do you know we're to put the electrodes?
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research
Could you send me the link to that page. I am having trouble finding it.
Thanks! Debbie |
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Hi Debbie, Just google Pub Med. Then type in CRPS and tDCS, or CRPS and Chronic pai or tDCS and safety. Some articles are printed in full. Others there is just an abstract. If you see one that looks particularly promising and it is only listed in abstract form you may write to the author to request a copy for your personal use. (If you obtain a copy this way you may not post the article). You may also be able to obtain some articles from your local college, or if you have a connection to a large university or medical school your contact might obtain a copy for you. One article will lead you to the next. This is not a hard process, just demands a little persistence. Hope this helps. |
I am wondering if the tDCS helps with thinking, concentrating part of RSD. I have trouble learning new things now, and I used to be able to learn quite easily. I have quite a problem in this area. I also have Fibro, and not sure how much is Fibro fog and what is RSD fog. Either way, I miss my brain. :rolleyes: I could cope with RSD better if I could watch a movie without getting lost, or read a book for example.
This was the main problem for me when I was still working. I hope to have the funds to try this treatment in a few months. |
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Using Pub Med for the first time can be confusing, depending on how you enter the site. Ballerina has a research background so it is second nature to her. (No offense meant Ballerina) Here is a tutorial that will guide you.http://www.nlm.nih.gov/bsd/disted/pubmedtutorial/ Send me a pm if you are still having problems. |
tDCS affect learning, but learning is quite distributed in the brain. Depending on the type of learning, different area's mediate this.
Concentration can be affected by stimulating the DLPFC. This area is involved in planning, organizing and some aspects of memory. F3 on the 10/20 system. Steve Quote:
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tDCS-speeding my recovery from the failed Spinal Cord Stimulator
The dystonia in my foot is now totally resolved. I knew it but did not want to post until I saw my doctor today. I truly believed that I would spend the rest of my life in the wheelchair due to a failed Spinal Cord stimulator. I am now using a cane at all times. I move rather slowly and cautiously but the wheelchair and walker are gathering dust. The alodynia in my foot is improving every week. (Not so much for the alodynia at the surgical sites caused by the Spinal Cord Stimulators due to multiple revision surgeries, but I am hopeful that continued tDCS will help)
Are you out there Catra?? I just know that you are going to follow me right out of that walker! So now the score card is: headaches 0, dystonia 0, alodynia in wrist spread caused by the SCS 0, skin infections, also the result of the spread caused by the SCS 0, sleep disturbances 0. I am off all narcotics and I pray it is forever. Today I went outside and sat on the ground in the warm sun and was laughing while I was pulling weeds. After the SCS failure my wrist was totally useless and even the air from the heat coming on caused severe pain. Now I am wearing gardening gloves, smiling at dandy lions and loving every minute of my life. The atrophy in my leg is almost gone and now I am working on core training in PT. The physical therapist giggles when she sees me. My wife cried when she came home from work and found me weeding. I don't know if tDCS can put me into remission but my money is on an eventual score of CRPS 0. I can't wait to go to support group tomorrow to tell everyone, although I think this post might let the cat out of the bag. Hope anyone thinking about trying tDCS will seriously consider it. It is cheap, non-invasive so it cannot cause a spread, portable and can be done at home. Wishing everyone the kind of joy I am feeling today! |
Hi
Spoke to dr fugedy ...planning on a visit, I have full body muscle wasting from rsd..hope it's not too much for the tDcs...
Debbie |
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What a joy to read your post sharing your progess using TDCS. :hug:Joydee |
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I have to say that I am extremely happy with my progress so far with the tDCS. I've been doing it a little over a month now and the results so far are all positive. The pain and allydonia in my hands and arms is now so much less than it was before. It's still there and reacts particularly bad to the extremes in temperature and cold air...but SO much better. I haven't had any instances of my hands freezing up in several weeks. And outside of the flare that was caused by the minor car accident I was in (and that lasted less than a day...still blows my mind) I have not really had any flares in my hands or arms for the last few weeks. I have also begun to notice a reduction in the pain and allydonia in my left ankle. This has taken a while...but I have started to notice that it IS less. I wasn't sure at first (was it just a few good days or was it really sticking) but now I feel comfortable saying that it is indeed a reduction in the overall pain level. I'm still using the TENS unit and doing all my other things...but where the pain level was never below a 6 before at its best...now I would say it generally stays between a 3-6 each day instead of a 6-10. Now...I did have a few instances of it flaring up to that level 10 level...usually if I misstep or bump my foot or anything like that. But even these flare ups are less often and last much shorter periods of time. All that said...I have started doing more walking without with a cane or a walker. Never far and never for long (always with the walker or cane in the room with me just in case...but I have been doing it more. The balance is still awfully shakey so I make sure than whenever I do this that there is something I can grab on to or lean against (like a counter or wall) because I don't want to fall and risk a bad injury. I need to be careful not to overdo it (I MAY have done this once or twice in the past couple weeks but I get over it quickly). I don't expect to leave the walker in the dust anytime soon...but I am now more optimistic that it WILL happen in time. I have really been able to build up a lot of strength back in my whole body. Oh...and I have noticed that I am sleeping better these days. I went off of the amitriptyline that I was taking at bedtime to help me sleep and I am sleeping a little longer than I was when I was taking it. My sleep is a little more broken than it was when I was on the meds but now I might get 2-4 blocks of sleep throughout the night that last about 2 hours each (sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less). This adds up to more than the 3-4 hours I was getting with the meds so I am happy with it and hope that it just gets better and better. I still have a ways to go but I am very happy with my progress in just over a month. Here's hoping it just gets better and better from this point on. :) |
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I want to thank you all for posting your results with the t.D.C.S. You have given me hope. I have had RSD for 8 years & have been able to get the pain decreased in my hand & am able to use my left hand again. My biggest problem now is the pain in my buttocks & right leg along with both knees. When I read that some of you are now pulling weeds, I thought "I wish I could do that." I have been unable to get down on the ground for 7 years & can't sit without alot of pain. I am wondering how long some of you went without being able to "pull weeds" & walk. Did you have atrophy? I'm also wondering where you got the equipment. Did you order it from amazon & learn how to do it from youtube? My pain management doc dismissed t.D.C.S. when I asked him about it but my internist is looking into it. I want to try it even if I can't find a doc to agree. I am so, so tired of this pain.
Congratulations to those of you have used it & found success. Linmarie :grouphug: |
TDCS trial update.
TDCS trial update.
To start off -- for those who have not read anything I posted, I'm well researched on tdcs and its techniques and methodologies. I did plenty of research and consultation before I went into these trials. I did three 7 to 10 day tdcs trials with no improvement in pain & increase in sleep disturbance. then I pulled back for 10 days or 2 weeks and did some rereading of research & techniques, and did some outside consultations with some of the users on this forum and other “experts” (if there are such people)…. I could find nothing I was doing going into any reasons that I would not be a responder, with the exception of the fact that I have a pretty darn angular head and a unusually shaped head….. something that didn't bother most others -- but kept popping up in my mind….. I also determined from discussions with other experienced users -- and that my sponges were either not wet enough or the sponges were not getting exposed to enough of my skin area & that was causing a little burning and tingling sensations and flashing of lights -- nothing that was unduly bother some him a side effect manner -- but just indicated the methodology I was using was anomalous… Anyway -- I ordered some different electrodes -- I'm using the flexible carbon electrodes that you will see in the tdcs JOVE video. The square AMREX metal/sponge electrodes that ballerina and most others are using on this forum -- they just would not lay against my head and make good contact. These new electrodes slip into sponge pockets that I had made up. They conform to my very angular head quite nicely and are much easier for me to use and the sensations I experienced during tdcs are different --much less flashing of lights and no burning sensations -- just some slight tingling. So I started another trial (number 4). I'm a little over 10 days into the trial. Once again -- no change in pain levels that I can discern. I can discern a slight change in pain levels immediately after the 20 minute, 2 milliamp session --- but it doesn't stay around. I'm still doing 20 minutes, 2 milliamps, once a day. The one symptomatic change is that I do not get any sleep disturbance anymore. I'm sleeping very well. The location I'm using currently is C-3. I guess since I have not had any changes in pain levels -- I will change the location down to the area that ballerina is using. And see if that changes. I am happy that ballerina, CRPSjames, and Catra121 are responding. I'm curious if you 3 have any kind of suggestions. Yesterday I think I hit the frustration point. this may seem like a silly question -- but.... how are you 3 determining that your pain levels are lowered? I'm not questioning that they are. I'm just wondering how long after the tdcs treatment do you notice the lowering of pain levels, how long it lasts, or am I just getting into more detail than I should and that one the pain levels change -- I'll know it.? thanks in advance... |
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For me...the pain reduction was a fairly gradual thing. Mostly I notice it in the form of a reduction in my sensitivity to touch and a lessening in the pain flares that really jack up the pain level. With the placement I am currently using it took a good month or so before I felt any pain reduction in my left ankle where the pain was the worst...but I am now feeling an improvement there as well. My pain is not gone by any stretch but I think that because there is less sensitivity to touch and the pain flares are less and last a short amount of time that this leads me to feel that my pain levels overall are lower than they were before. Not sure how it is for the others...but I know I can use my hands for longer periods of time, I don't feel like I want to die when something or someone brushes up against me, I can wear closer fitting clothes for longer periods of time, I don't have to wear gloves every single time I go outside (just when its cold or particularly windy), I can sometimes wear a short sleeved shirt and not want to cry every time a WARM breeze touches my skin (cool or cold ones still do though)...stuff like that. Or how long I can hold something in my hands before resting (I do cross stitching and I can now usually hold the stitching in my hands for longer periods before needed to rest them because the pain level starts to get too high). Those are the sorts of things that I use to judge whether the pain levels are more tolerable and lower than before. But all of these things have been gradual. I noticed some effect pretty early on but it wasn't until a good two weeks in that I really felt like I could FEEL the effects on a bigger scale. I do treatments twice a day and I write down how I am feeling every day...but I don't look over what I write every day. Instead I wait a good week before reviewing everything. By doing it this way I was able to really see a bigger difference. Also wanted to mention that the first placement I tried (the C3/C4 position that you are using now) I felt the pain reduction immediately after the treatments but that it didn't last very long and then within an hour or so would be back up to really high levels. I didn't like that because it felt worse to me than just having high levels constantly and dealing with them. The elevation of the pain so quickly really made me nuts and was sort of horrible for me. I know...sort of crazy because wouldn't everyone love just a little bit of relief...but it really messed with my coping techniques and threw me off. I also amped up my other pain relief techniques after this first electrode placement. I take two warm baths with epsom salts every day now instead of just one, use the ultrasound twice a day (right after each bath), been walking and doing my exercises more, and have been using the lidoderm patches more strategically in areas where I anticipate flares (for example on the parts of my arms where I tend to get elevated pain after walking or where a particular bit of clothing might rub against me wrong or where my shoes might hit me wrong, etc) and only use them in the same area once or twice a week. Could these things also be partially responsible for the pain reduction...I suppose it's possible but I've done all this in the past before without much luck in lowering the pain levels over all...and certainly not the sensitivity to touch and all that. So I feel pretty confident that it is the tDCS that is making the big difference and the other stuff is just helping that along. I think that using the different electrodes may be a very good idea for you. I am glad to hear that you are not experiencing those side effects anymore. Even if they were minor...still is good to not go through it. And glad you are sleeping better now. I hope a new placement will see you with better results. |
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Eight years is a long time to try different treatments with no relief. I hope you give tDCS a try. I had atrophy in my right hand which is now completely resolved. (That is not the only symptom that has totally resolved due to tDCS) I have gotten a lot of function back and it has been stable, even when I go off of tDCS for an extended period of time. You mentioned pain in the buttocks. Is this pain related to a spinal cord stimulator? I only ask because several folks who have pm'd me for tDCS info had failed stims that resulted in spread of CRPS to surgical sites, including battery sites. tDCS has been less effective for their pain caused by SCS spreads to those sited but has been very effective for the original CRPS pain. It is not surprising that your pm doc dismissed your questions. What pm doc wants his former waiting room of patients to be purchasing a device for under $300.00 and treating themselves, getting better results than any invasive procedure or treatment that can be offered by repeated visits to the waiting room. I infrequently visit them now after camping out in a long laundry list of specialists since eight months prior to my diagnosis. You can find info on purchasing the iontophoresis device used for tDCS by reading this thread. There is also information on treatment facilities offering tDCS. You may do a pub med search for clinical trials using tDCS to treat CRPS and other forms of chronic pain. CRPSJames posted a link to a tutorial for using Pub Med that I was not aware of in case you have not done research before. Not everybody likes digging through research journals. If you would rather consult with a physician I highly recommend Dr. James Fugedy in Atlanta. Hope this helps! |
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I would seem to me having less sleep distrubance along with sleeping better is positive . This might be a dumb question and should Catra, ballerina, and even CRP James chose to comment it would be appreciated, but I wonder if the hair on one's head affects the TDCS treatment. I suppose if one was without hair which would provide better skin contract, that might be a plus but what about long hair or thick hair. Could such affect outcome. Joydee |
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Hi Joydee, I have not read anything in scientific journals about type of hair being a factor in success or failure with tDCS. If anybody finds something please post. Thanks Joydee |
With regards to hair...I did read (somewhere...can't remember where though) that it is important to make sure that the electrodes have as much contact with the skin as possible. So you do want to try to move as much hair as you can out of the way. Along that line of thinking I suppose it could be more difficult for someone who has really thick hair to get good skin contact where as someone with NO hair would probably have the best. It was sort of a pain for me in the beginning to figure out how to move my hair out of the way for the electrode (only one is an issue with this because I don't have any problems with hair on my forehead). I guess in this situation it is a good thing that I have fairly fine, thin hair.
I also remember reading that you want to make sure you have a nice clean spot to place the electrodes...no hair products or anything should be in your hair. Not sure if that will help at all but that's all I know about it. |
Catra: thanks for your wonderful response. it's helpful and informative.
For everyone else -- as far as hair goes -- its hould not be an issue -- you should move the hair out of the way as best as possible -- but when you use sponge electrodes just make sure they are "slightly dripping wet" as ballerina says -- i.e. and they are wet enough. Sponges soaked in wet Saline will help get around the hair issues....... I'd love it if any other "responders" would pipe in and tell their experiences as to how they determined they were "responding"..... stories help me understand... voner |
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I wish you were getting a better result but I suspect that your tenacity will pay off. When I originally had my first experience with tDCS at Beth Israel I treated once a day for five days. I really did not see much in terms of response until the last day. The next week the relief was increased. At first the relief was so slight that I thought it was a placebo effect, (which can be very powerful.) When I began treating myself I had a more dramatic response-changed electrode placement and increased treatment to twice a day for twenty minutes and added weeks. Just a note about electrode placements: tDCS eliminated my tinnitus completely, but it was not with the electrode placement typically associated with reduction of tinnitus. We all have a different response to whatever electrode placements we use. When I have gone off tDCS I have not noticed a return of some symptoms, although admittedly, falls and re injuries got me right back on treatment. I did avert a major spread by immediately resuming treatment. Now I am treating for 40 minutes twice a day. I am trying for remission. Some of the current research suggests that longer treatments are more beneficial. My improvements continue but are slow. Unfortunately I was attacked by a dog deemed vicious and dangerous by the local Animal Control and have been recovering from that. (Doesn't that suck?) I make weekly progress. I suggest to everyone that they keep a daily diary, including triggers, injuries, no matter how slight, meds, PT, etc. and that it only be reviewed once a week. For me, after a month I was truly amazed at my progress. All things equal, nothing I had ever done (meds, treatments) had yielded the results that I got from tDCS. The first symptom improvement I noticed was sleep improvement. I was so overjoyed by this that I did not care if tDCS improved other areas. Then of course, after each symptom reduction or elimination I got greedy and now I want remission. One thing that seems to remain constant with everyone with CRPS is desperately seeking pain relief. Desperation has certainly been a factor with me also. What has helped me considerably was to constantly focus on treatments that would get to the root cause, rather than just get the pain. After all, the disease marches on and typically progresses even if we are getting pain relief or the pain is being covered up, whether by meds or spinal cord stimulators. This obsession with finding a treatment to attack the root cause of CRPS, cortical reorganization, is what has kept me steeped in research since very soon after my diagnosis. I can see that you are similarly obsessed. Although I am by no means an expert on tDCS may I make a few suggestions. If you find a protocol that is giving you any symptom reduction (find a method that works for you to determine that) try increasing treatment to 40 minutes twice a day. If you determine that you are not getting relief, try different electrode placements. (There are new ones all the time) Don't give up yet!!!!!!!!! Better days are ahead for you! |
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I finally got your PM and sent a reply. Thanks! |
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I don't know how I missed your post, I apologize. There is a lot of scientific resarch on the use of tDCS for improving memory and learning. tDCS is currently being used with excellent results for stroke patients. One of the amazing benefits I have seen is the improvement in executive function, specifically, memory, planning, organizing, sequential processing and retaining new information. After my diagnosis with CRPS I worried that I also had dementia because my symptoms progressed so quickly. I was on Namenda for a good long while until tDCS treatments. I had big time anger since I felt that it was enough that my body was a total stranger, but I no longer knew who I was mentally. Now I am off of Namenda. I suspect I would see even greater improvement if I went back on Namenda in addition to tDCS but there are no long term scientific studies regarding Namenda since most people taking the drug for dementia die before long term issues would be a problem. tDCS also works very well for Fibro. That really sucks that you have CRPS and Fibro fog!!! Has to make coping tough. I would highly recommend a trial of tDCS. It is non-invasive, has no side effects and cannot cause a spread like some invasive procedures used to treat CRPS. It is also cheap, unlike many other CRPS treatments. Don't be surprised if your doctor is unfamiliar with or disapproves of a tDCS trial. Prior posts explain the financial politics behind medical treatments, particularly as they relate to CRPS. (Any reader who believes there is no politics involved in treatments for CRPS probably also believes in the tooth fairy.) Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! P.S. This past week the mental improvement has really taken off. I am thrilled that I am not such a stranger to myself anymore. Here is hoping that we may all become acquainted with the people we once were. |
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