Tayla,

You wrote: Our requests of information are met only with your indignation and often fury that we are questioning you! Not so. Anyone reading my replies has plenty of evidence that requests for information receive information. My indignation is reserved for people who deliberately, maliciously and constantly misquote me and falsely summarize my views.

I have asked that if you insist RSD is the result of a traumatic nerve injury, that you provide research supporting that view, and you only reply with accusations about me. I repeat: If you know of any research demonstrating that the signs and symptoms of this disease are caused by a nerve injury, please show it to us.

I don't claim that physicians who treat RSD are incompetent or dishonest. Physicians in clinical practice necessarily rely on information provided by experts. Thus I do claim that those who set themselves as experts by publishing articles about this disease don't seem interested in proving the claims they make.

On the other hand, I personally believe that any physician or treatment team that urges that RSD patients try taking extremely dangerous anti-psychotic drugs, in the hope that it might help their disorder, are most likely too dangerous to be allowed to practice medicine...Vic

Hi Vicc,

HBO Therapy should work if it is something viral, bacteria or fungal in origin. Now I think I had a rough reaction in HBO chamber because the fellow that operated the chamber took the pressure level way to fast. Which could of increased toxin die off way to fast , which caused a Herxheimer Reaction. This is why maybe my oxygen levels went down so low?

http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/herxheimer.html

Sometimes a Herx occurs from the mycoplasma die-off. The dead organism produces toxins, which trigger the immune system. The cytokine production of the immune system will be stimulated. The elevated cytokines (such as interferon, interleukin, tumor necrosis factor, etc.), can cause many of the initial Herx symptoms. Sometimes a Herx can be from the generation of free radicals when the immune is over-activated.

http://www.mycoplasmasupport.org/Web...H_reaction.htm

I would like to give HBO Therapy ago with a facility that knows what they are doing. Much Love, Roz

Hi again Roz,

Because of the extremely poor regulation of the HBO industry in this country, I urge anyone contemplating this therapy choose a chamber that is accredited by the Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine Society. This is your best assurance of getting therapy by professionals who know what they're doing...Vic

Vicc,

I believe there has been article upon article submitted onto this site that does explain why RSD maybe the result of traumatic nerve injury. I have no intention of reposting them again. I believe all of those who are interested in the possible causes and treatment of this disease have accessed them, read them and come to their own conclusions.
As you are asking for us to prove this common theory about RSD , I am simply asking you for the same about your theory.
You are accusing people of deliberately, maliciously and constantly misquoting you, if this is your perception then can you not see that you could be doing the exact same to others?


Your condescending comment on those medical practitoners who may prescribe "dangerous anti-psychotics" is frivilous in the extreme as they do so because they have had patients who respond well with little or no side effects. To insist that they would continue this practice if they had patients becoming unwell because of their treatments is just another indication of your disdain for any other medical opinion other than the ones subscribed to by you.

I am speaking only for myself here but I will usually happily undertake any treatment that I have thoroughly researched and established that the outcome may well and truly be worth the miniscule risk involved.
You may disagree but I can assure you I have come to no harm in my quest for an answer to this disease and I have probably tried and tested almost everything available that has been offered.
Tayla

Hi Tayla and Angel,

If I recall rightly you are both RN's. I am just a hairdresser but I have seened alot of people with severe nerve injuries. But they don't have RSD.

So what do you think is causing the spread and nerve damage? Hugs, Roz

This debate began, at least in part, because I felt I needed to reply to the implied accusation that my use of abstracts in my research made my conclusions unscientific and unreliable.

Since then it has degenerated into what it has now become: I don't intend to play this game anymore. I have offered reasons why I believe RSD is an IRI, you have argued that there is proof that it is the result of a nerve injury, but refuse to offer any evidence.

If you want to play with me, you'll have to bring some new toys: In my thread Facts you may not know about RSD, I explained how ischemia can cause allodynia. Fair's fair; its your turn to offer evidence showing how a nerve injury can cause it.

Lets put an end to accusations and return to a more reasoned approach to this topic...Vic

.... how can you explain that when my doc does surgeries, like the SCS or PNS or the pain pump that once a RSD'er is under general anesthisia that all the symptoms of RSD go away?? When i had both my surgeries for my PNS and SCS and the revision surgeries, i was put under general anesthisia adn said that my foot went to a almost normal positiion(i have a severly inverted foot) and that all my coloring goes to normal. This also happened when i had 2 week long epidurals. And the symptoms and the inverted all came right back when the general anesthisia or epidural block was stopped. My pm doc told me this bc i asked him about the workings of RSD. He said this happens in all his RSD patients and is similar to what a blcok does, but with general anesthisia your brain is totally shut down adn it also shuts down the effects of RSD and stops the pain signals.

Now doesnt that sound like nerves to me?? I can prob find a abstract if you want me to.. or?? but this is getting rediculos and youre getting upset that we are challenging your beliefs. And we are upset that you wont just say thats its what you think and leave it at that.. you are spreading this IRI theroy into the RSD world and its not even reconized to be associated with RSD. And i know that you are trying to get the word out there about IRI, but what good does it do when you are teling the people here and they go aske there docs and they have no clue.. Thier docs arnt gonna look it up and maybe if they do they find a couple articles aobut IRI but nothing conculsive.. and you i guess have the research to prove it.. so market tell ing doctors not us!! Yes we can brign it to them, but again... they are just gona think of what "they know IRI " is and dismiss it and that makes us (RSD'er) more frustrated.

Roz, I think that RSD can attack anyone and anypart of the body. And you asked me how do i explain the spread or other people with severe nerve damage that dont get RSD. Im not sure... and im not even gona tap in there bc im not a doctor! (not being mean at all... just wanted to make it clear that IM not giveing out advise) There have been researches that say people with type A personalities get this bc they have the strength or capabilities to deal with it... i think this could be possible. RSD can start with getting a stubbed toe or bee sting... and also with invasive surgeries.. Its all the luck of the draw i guess... ???


Amber

Ya know, I read all the "debate posts" and really got a lot out of them. Vic, I don't think there were any "games played" at all! Lighten up dude! LOL.. seriously vic,You just may be tired and in pain from writng so much back and forth. I must say though, that I really got a hell of a lot out of these! Thanks everyone for all your in put! Much Love to all! Love, ~Desi

"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein

Thanks for the lively debate!

Perhaps when someone investigates the one thing that is common to all the body systems that rsd affects (skin,muscle, bone, blood vessels, and nerves) we will get closer to what the cause for rsd is. It may well be that that there is no "one" cause but indeed a soup mix of causes; then maybe it's one cause but in a mix of things making up the soup. Maybe trigger is the word to use. But even then, I think ok we all have cancer cells in our body so i read but not everyone gets it. One's immune system seems to keep it in check. I have a benign tumour but I wonder what set it off really, what made it grow to where if it isn't kept in check it can be lifethreatening. Maybe everyone has the potential for rsd but only some get it because of a "something" that triggers it. Maybe there's more than one trigger.

In any case, it's good to see spirited debate.

I see some "truth" in all explanations offered here, but I am not convinced by either the rsd-IRI one or the nerve one by themselves.

All the best,
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