Has Anyone Heard of This?

12-07-2006, 03:59 PM

Hi Everyone,
Most of you know I am post OR about 7 months. I also had cervical spine surgery about 7 weeks ago. I was wondering if anyone tried this product to reduce scar tissue build up? Thanks, Roz

http://www.aragonproducts.com/thepro...fm?master=7147

Vicc · 12-08-2006, 12:31 AM

Hi Roz,

I skimmed over the content in this link earlier today, but now my pc just can't open it, so my reply is based on a flawed memory, but I think a response may be helpful despite this.

You have read many of my RSD posts at the other Forum, so you know my advocacy of grape seed extract is based upon what I consider to be solid science plus my personal experience. As you know, while I took it I had no symptom migration, but when I stopped all four limbs became inflammed (red and burned like a minor sunburn), and that I immediatly resumed taking it, the inflammation subsided and I have not experienced any symptom migration since the disease moved to my right foot in early 1998. That I would stop smoking if I had to choose between tobacco and GSE.

I am not, however, and advocate for nutritional supplements or products that make medical claims. I can't overcome my knowledge that these products are not tested by the FDA and while most in the market may be sincere, some are there only for the money. There isn't a reliable way to sort between them.

My unreliable memory does recall reading that this product helps the immune system and has a beneficial effect on the circulatory system.

I know that the experts claim RSD is a neurological disorder, but I have learned enough about neurology to know this is simply impossible; that this disease is inconsistent with much that is known about neurology (I am working on my post on why RSD can't be a neurological disorder). My neurosurgeon agrees that RSD cannot be neurological disorder.

If it isn't neurological, it is most likely a poorly understood (misunderstood) ischemia-reperfusion injury; it is the result of damage to our microvascular systems by an an aberrant immune response.

I won't go into further detail about that now, I have said it many times before). I will simply say that if the research I've read and quoted is right, there is no way to know what, if any, affect this product may have on the immune or microvascular systems.

There is no link between epidural fibrosis (EF) and RSD (I know because one of my diagnoses is nerve root compression from EF. I have researched all of my diagnoses and discussed them with my neuro, so I'm not just offering a personal opinion. I have never read any research that attempted to link RSD and EF, so if you're thinking of using this product as a precaution against RSD, forget it.

That isn't to say that it might not be useful in protecting against EF after surgery at the spine, but I have to say that at 7 weeks post; it's probably too late to do you any good.

Finally, if you do choose to use this product, please, please take at least 200mg of GSE daily. It is an antioxidant, which have been proven to prevent ischemia-reperfusion injury and which I know is the best explanation for why I have not experienced any symptom migration (good luck can only take you so far, and I have no idea what an eight year run of good luck might feel like).

There has never been a recorded case of adverse reaction between GSE and another medication, nor has there ever been a report of adverse reaction to GSE alone. It is a relatively inexpensive product that won't hurt.

One warning: After begining GSE, if you stop taking it you may experience inflammation in non-RSD affected limbs. I have never read of this happening to anyone except me, but that may be, as I believe, evidence that GSE is protecting us from pre-inflammatory development of RSD: That the body is still protecting against oxidative damage and that this natural defense is relaxed when another antioxidant source is introduced.

If this is the case, it is likely that the body would resume utilization of other antioxidant resources and would have suppressed the inflammation I experienced if I had given it more time before resuming GSE.

The problem for me, though I never considered it at the time, is; what if it hadn't? What if my body had relied upon the GSE and once the inflammation began it was too late for my body to utilize other natural antioxidant defenses before RSD developed in all four limbs?

I don't know whether others with RSD have taken GSE for a while, and then stopped, have shared my experience. I guess I won't know until someone believes me and begins taking GSE as a precaution against symptom migration.

I know I stand against all the experts, so no one has any good reason to pay any attention to what I say. I have to add, however, that whenever I read a post from someone reporting new symptom migration, it hurts too much to be tempted to say 'I told you so'.

Even as you warned me against using propranolol without further research, I now suggest you talk this over with your doc before trying it, focusing especially on whether using it this long after surgery would be of any benefit...Vic

jcherry · 12-08-2006, 12:26 PM

Vic,

You are one of the most intelligent guys I know. I really think you missed your calling and should have been a Dr, then you'd have all of us to take care of..LOL Thanks for posting on the GSE. I am going to get some this weekend and start taking it myself.

Thank you for everything you do for us and all of the information that you provide us with. In my eyes you are one of the greatest men out there.

Love,
Janet

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