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Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD and CRPS) Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (Complex Regional Pain Syndromes Type I) and Causalgia (Complex Regional Pain Syndromes Type II)(RSD and CRPS) |
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The Biochemical Origin of Pain: The origin of all Pain is Inflammation and the Inflammatory Response. PART 2 of 3 –Inflammatory Profile of Pain Syndromes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...tool=pmcentrez S oops sory about the spelling up top. |
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Wow Sandel, this is a great paper!
Hope you and your family are all managing to make it through the flu bug ok. Have your arms calmed down from your shots yet? Thanks for posting this. MsL |
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Sandra -
No time to read, must run. Don't have a problem with the premise of the paper, emphasis on "origin." What I do know is that if you go to the RSDSA Medical Artical Archieve page under "Research" http://www.rsds.org/2/library/articl....html#Research you'll get a number of articles showing a great drop off in the number of observed pro-inflammatory cytokines as CRSP begins it's transition to the chronic phase, where it is presumable maintained by ingrained permutations in the thamaic-cortical loops. Is the problem of post-cytokine pain addressed in the paper to your knowledge? Mike |
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Hi Mike,
The paper posted by Sandel “The origin of all Pain is Inflammation and the Inflammatory Response” appropriately addresses the audience for which it was intended. To answer your question one simply needs to scroll down to the conclusion. Quote:
The problem as I see it is that the science is just now starting to understand chronic pain. Most clinicians still use the surgical pain model to bridge the gap between acute pain and chronic pain. There is little general knowledge among many medical professionals of the fact that it is the persistence of that acute pain that in fact leads to chronic pain although I do believe the tides are changing. Most people understand acute pain, you break an arm, you set it in a cast give some pain relievers and it heals. It wasn't until most recently that chronic pain began to be accepted by the medical professionals as a disease process in and of itself. As patients we have all experienced an analgesic gap, a specific time period during pain therapy when our pain is unrelieved. This sets off a whole series of mechanisms, which is where I believe your question is leading. Unfortunately there is still a huge gap in translating the most recent discoveries of chronic pain research to the bedside and that where most of us wallow in our frustrations. Hope you are doing well. MsL |
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This was written before I saw MsL's last post:
Two more comments, having read the portion of the article posted. 1. Classifying diseases in terms of their inflammatory profiles may make sense. Don't know. Please note however that this appears in the Journal of Medical Hypothesis, which means that you don't have to prove anything - by definition - it just has to appear plausible. And in that regard, note that the inflammatory profile of CRPS shifts dramatically over time, from a stew of proinflammatory cytokines, Substance P, TNF-[alpha], etc., to basically a single peptide, Calcitonin Gene-Related Peptide (CGRP). This is significant because it's only been in the last year or so that researchers have focused on the "longitudinal profile" of CRPS. Thus if you go back only a year or two in the literature, you will see no attempt to segregate CRPS patients by stage of disease. See, Uceyler N, Eberle T, Rolke R, Birklein F, Sommer C, Differential expression patterns of cytokines in complex regional pain syndrome, Pain 2007; 132: 195–205 http://www.rsds.org/2/library/articl...erle_Rolke.pdf ; Alexander GM, van Rijn MA, van Hilten JJ, Perreault MJ, Schwartzmann RJ, Changes in Cerebrospinal Fluid Levels of Pro-inflammatory Cytokines in CRPS , Pain 2005; 116: 213-219 http://www.rsds.org/2/library/articl.../alexander.pdf In support of the majority of his thesis regarding the role of inflammation in CRPS, Omogui relies primarily on Birklein F, Schmelz M, Schifter S, Weber M. The important role of neuropeptides in complex regional pain syndrome. Neurology. 2001 Dec 26; 57(12): 2179–2184. Yet the later article of Birklien and Schemlz appears to be the authors’ latest word on the subject. See, Birklein F, Schmelz M, Neuropeptides, neurogenic inflammation and complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS), Neuroscience Letters 2008; 437: 199-202 http://www.rsds.org/2/library/articl...in_Schmelz.pdf at 201: Inflammation in the classical sense with positive blood markers has not been proven, but any inflammation has a "neurogenic component." As indicated above, peripheral trauma, in particular if it is accompanied by partial peripheral nerve lesion, causes a rapid release of NGF and cytokines. Both are able to activate and sensitize primary afferents, locally at the injury site or proximally in the respective nerve trunk. Accordingly, increased levels of proinflammatory cytokines have been shown in CRPS skin by analysis of suction blisterfluids and in CRPS spinal fluid. Our own group concentrated on cytokines in blood samples. We have been able to demonstrate increased TNF-alpha in plasma samples of two different independent CRPS patients groups. Increase of TNFalpha in that study was correlated to mechanical hyperalgesia. In a very recent more extensive study we confirmed these findings-not only on protein but also RNA level in CRPS blood samples. Different proinflammatory cytokines were upregulated while antiinflammatory cytokines were downregulated in the patients.However, when the first reported longitudinal study was done across the length of their disease, a different pattern emerged altogether. See, Schinkel C, Scherens A, Köller M, Roellecke G, Muhr G, Maier C, Systemic inflammatory mediators in post-traumatic complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS I) - longitudinal investigations and differences to control groups, Eur J Med Res. 2009 Mar 17; 14(3): 130-5. Abstracthttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...m&ordinalpos=2 Accordingly, the only longitudinal (pilot) study to date of CRPS across the disease cycle among a group of patients - as opposed to sampling CRPS patients as an undifferentiated group vs. controls - found that the "Determination of systemic inflammatory parameters is not yet helpful in diagnostic and follow-up of CRPS I," precisely the opposite result predicted by Omoigui, who maintains that diseases should be classified by their inflammatory profiles.* Which brings to mind the Riddle of the Sphinx: What walks on four legs in the morning, two at Noon and three in the evening? (Man) 2. I had seen the name of Sota Omoigui, MD before, but I couldn't recall seeing his departmental title: Division of Inflammation and Pain Research, L.A Pain Clinic, 4019 W. Rosecrans Ave, Hawthorne, CA 90250. At that point, I had no choice but to open his web page, but not to pop ups, etc.: http://www.medicinehouse.com/ (Talk about something for everyone.) That said, the man definitely contributed Chapter 23, "Cholesterol, interleukin-6 inflammation, and atherosclerosis—role of statins, bisphosphonates, and plant polyphenols in atherosclerosis and other diseases of aging," in Ronald Ross Watson (Editor), Douglas Larson (Editor) Immune Dysfunction and Immunotherapy in Heart Disease, Wiley September 2007 http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyT...fContents.html and he has 7 hits on Pub Med, so he remained a mystery to me. That is until I came across the C.V. which he had submitted as a member of The FDA Advisory Committee on Anesthetics and Life Support Devices http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Advisor.../UCM177291.pdf And to tell the truth, a sad read it is. Clearly a sharp guy, and yet . . . . Still, there those seven Pub Med references under his name, three of which, including the first part of the 3-part article Sandra pulled and an article on which his chapter in the Watson and Larson text is based, are available free of charge. (Just run a search in Pub Med under his name.) I wish everyone a good day. Mike * In fairness to Dr. Omoigui, one could take the position that our knowledge of inflammatory processes was still woefully incomplete (as suggested by the conclusion of Schinkel et al). Yet to do so would be to reduce his "Law of Pain" to an article of faith. Last edited by fmichael; 11-10-2009 at 10:45 PM. Reason: footnote re "Law of Pain" |
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#6 | |||
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Senior Member
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MsL -
As noted, I accept that inflammation initiates all pain, but not that inflammation maintains all pain. Do I quibble with the notion that inflammation is the origin of all pain? What came first, the chicken or the antibody? As to where I am on all of this right now (and entirely consistent with the foregoing) as well as to get your opinion on a little editorial - by a pretty important guy - please give a quick look at a thread called The fascination of complex regional pain syndrome, Jänig, W., Exp. Neurol. (2009) I posted a couple of weeks back at http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread106842.html thanks, Mike |
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Senior Member
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Although filed in 2005, it appears to still be pending: http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?...7&DISPLAY=DESC
I wish him all the luck in the world, subject to my underlying misgivings about whether medical procedures should be subject to patent in the first place. But that's not my call. Check out the abstract: AbstractMike PS And here's the information on what appears to be his still pending US patent application for the same concept: http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...DN/20060275294 Last edited by fmichael; 11-10-2009 at 03:49 PM. |
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