Hmmm, I agree with it. If you take a loan out or borrow anything one should pay it back. If you don't then it should be garnished, period. If one cannot afford it, don't buy it. If you found yourself in a mess because rates went up or what not, you should still pay even if it's hard times. I doubt this would even be argued if it were say, child support. Don't you think if a parent owes child support that it could be garnished from their check whatever it is? Be accountable, it's as simple as that. If it's a mistake then one has to take steps to clear their name. It sucks but happens and you have to fight for your rights unfortunately.

Heck, my mom is paying on a repo car she sent back to the bank when she got sick and could no longer drive. They sold it and didn't get what she owed so she now owes the difference. She's worked out a payment plan and pays it monthly until it's paid up. She is on widows pension and disability. The payment is workable for her. She wasn't happy but like I told her, the bank has to make their money too and it was not their fault she got sick and couldn't pay the car note. She understands that now.

So, yes, I support this idea.

Sandy,

I forgot to add that the federal government DOES garnish wages for child support. I've seen that happen a few times. Also, if one borrows from their TSP as in a loan; that too has to be paid back at some point and usually with interest. I could never understand why someone would want to pay interest on their own contribtions LOL! But they do sometimes. It may have changed now but that is how it used to be.

Melody, you have me laughing. My best friend's mother more or less catered to her grandkids for the longest time! I know how she felt though; she didn't want her great grand children to suffer. Even so it darn near bankrupted her. Both myself and my best friend sat her down one day and told her...enough is enough; those adult grandkids needed to get their act together.

Thank the lord you have a brain. You gave that person the best advice. I hope she took it.

Do you know how many people I know who either have their kids or their grandkids in the basement? These people are in their 20's. DO NOTHING but go on the computer or play video games all day long (most are guys). And god forbid someone should say ANYTHING!!!

The answer always is "Well, he can't find a job, he can't work" "WHAT ELSE CAN I DO??"

Go to a tough love meeting. That's what they should do.

I am OFFICIALLY off of my soapbox now.

lol lol
Melody

P.S. The best story I heard was when an old old friend of mine had an adult child who drank ALL THE TIME, passing out all over the place. They always ran to rescue him. When I discreetly asked if maybe the guy should go to rehab I was hit with "Oh, he doesn't have a drinking problem".

I said 'What???" and then I was told "So what if he enjoys an occasional drink?"

??????????????????????????????????????

Then, when I picked myself off of the floor, I asked the question: "do you think he takes drugs"?" I was met with "OF COURSE NOT, HE WOULDN'T DO THAT".

Then how come when I walked in on he and his friends one summer night, the smell of pot was all over the place and I said 'put all this out, they are behind me'. The jumped up and started spraying.

Parents HAVE NO CLUE. I think they want to be in denial. Then they don't have to acknowledge all this negative behavior.

Oh yesterday my husband and I were waiting for a bus. My husband's neck nearly came off of his body. I said "what the heck are you doing, do you want to get whiplash?' He said "Did you see that girl? OH MY GOODNESS"

We got on the bus, and as the bus passed the girl, EVERYBODY ON THE BUS GOT WHIPLASH. Including me!!

She was about 16 or so, pink neon hair (that wasn't the worst). And she had on a blouse that was cut down to her naval. I kid you not.

She had to be a 44 FF (if indeed there is such a size. I have never seen BAZONGAS like this in my life.

She just walked up to the bus but didn't get on. The other teenage girls burst out laughing at her. She was laughing too but I have no idea why. I gather they realized everyone on the bus saw her walking down the street.

EVERYTHING WAS HANGING OUT, if you get my drift.

Someone on the bus said "How the heck did her mother let her out of the house."?

And these people are our future.

Oh well!!!

lol

I get that a grandmother might be reluctant to prosecute....that grandmother SHOULD have to pay the student loan back. It's not the loan company's fault that lil Susie is a criminal, they shouldn't have to eat the cost. Grandma either has to go after Susie for the money or repay the loan herself.

For the record, my grandmother loved me more than life itself, but if I broke the law she would have been the first one to pull me by the ear all the way to the police station, even though she was half my weight and a foot shorter than me.

Melody, you are spot on and have me dying laughing! I KNOW what you are speaking of. When my daughter was younger and had her ears pierced, I told her...if I EVER see you wearing enormous hoops, your butt will be mine LOL! Well, you know what I mean...I just never wanted her to go out of the house looking "rough". But she learned early how to dress so I really never had an issue with that. Now, a sass-pot mouth? Yep, sometimes. But I am thankful that was worst of it and I did nip that in bud whenever she spewed. Anyway, she turned out A-okay so I did my job ha!ha!

Finz, I hear ya. When I was very, very young...probably 5 or 6, I was at the dimestore with my mom and took some fake earrings. I think I knew it was wrong but I did it anyway. Kids ya know. Well, when my mom saw those on my dresser, she took me by the hand and took me up to the store to return those and to apologize. I was never so embarassed in all my life. Trust me, I NEVER did it again LOL!

I think the very heart of this whole conversation is ACCOUNTABILITY. Causes and consequences. If the person does something that is not morally acceptable (and sometimes this means using plain old common sense because young kids and teens will TEST US. It's the hormone and the rebellion and I once read that it's perfectly normal for a teen to have angst and rebel and they need discipline, etc. etc. I get this.

But if that young person, or that teen does the deed, he should do the time. And I don't care if the time translates to washing windows until his penalty is sufficiently paid.

Let me tell you a story about what my son did. He is no longer in our lives but that is his choice because we would not enable. I've come to terms with this, it's a personal tragedy but I have learned to put myself first and heal my own heart.

But let's go back in time to when he was 12. He was in Junior High School. We had done the tough love meetings. He just had to have his way and that was that. BUT NOT IN MY HOUSE. I always held him reponsible and our relationship was never strained because he knew what I was doing, BUT HE HAD TO TRY AND DO HIS OWN THING ANYWAY. But to tell you the truth, his folder in the principal's office was one tenth the size of the other delinquents. I'm not kidding.

I will never forget. I got a call from the school telling me he was being held in detention for pushing a school guard. Alan was at work so it was up to me. I had never been in this situation before. Any previous thing he did was stupid infractions, getting bullied in class, he defended himself, the teacher told me "I don't blame him one bit, he had to do what he had to do, I'm not writing him up". STUFF OF THAT NATURE. He ran with a bad bunch of kids for a time. We talked it out. The stuff stopped.

So one day I get this call, I go over to the school and I'm in a place where I've never been. It's a floor with all the deans of discipline. Never heard of that before because I always went to Catholic Parochial School and we never had any deans of anything. You looked crosswise at the nun and you got bopped on your head. Always the boys, never the girls.

So I walk in and there is my son, age 12 or so, sitting at a table with three deans of discipline, and the security guard and there's my son sitting in a chair with this chip on his shoulder.

I am immediately drawn to the sounds in the other rooms (more deans, more kids, more moms). One kid had stolen a Chicago Bulls leather jacket from another kid and he was being detained. All I heard was moms yelling at the teachers and at the deans and the moms were yelling "you got the wrong kid, my kid would NEVER do this, let my kid go, blah blah blah"

And these rooms were separated by glass partitions so all of us had our own rooms.

I took one look at my sullen sulking son and I said "Sit up, you are in front of school personnel". He sat up. The others looked at and their eyes opened up. (this is exactly what happened because I'll never forget it).

I said "what did you do?" My son said "I didn't do nothing". I responded: "If you didn't do nothing, you wouldn't be here, what did you do?"

He said: 'well, this guy wouldn't let me in school". I said to the security guard "Is this the case, you wouldn't let him in school (I said this with calm and respectfullness, because I'm not stupid, I just wanted to get the facts).

The security guard replied "Well, Frank knows that after 8 a.m. you can't enter the school without a late pass and he refused the late pass and he pushed me and got by me and went into the school so I reported him".

I looked at my son and said "Is this true". and he smirked (he actually smirked at me), and said "Well, yeah, I wanted to go in and he wouldn't let me so I kind of pushed him a little BUT I DIDN'T HIT HIM OR ANYTHING".

I said to the 6 or 7 men that were sitting around this table. "what is his punishment"? They looked at me as if I said something they had never heard of before (don't forget...all the other mothers were screaming "My son would never do this or that".

One of the deans said to me "Well, in a case like this, we'd suspend him for the day". So I said "oh really, you think giving him the day off would be the best thing for him, so he can go home and watch tv and not be responsible?"

One of the guy said "well, he should apologize to the guard and it's our policy to suspend him for the day".

I walked over to Frank, I said in a low firm voice, "Stand up and apologize to the guard". My son said "why should I"? I picked him up by his coat collar and HE GOT UP. I marched him over to the guard (I know I sound like a nazi here but this is not how it sounds, I was a mother who was trying to make her son responsible"

He goes to the guard in a sullen voice "I'm sorry".

I said "not god enough, you did something agains school policy and you have to make amends". He said "I'm really sorry, I should never have pushed you".

The guy looks at my son as if he never heard an apology before and he said "Okay, Frank, no hard feelings"

Picture me standing up in front of a table with school officials and announcing:

"May I take him home now, he'll be back here tomorrow morning ON TIME, but I'd like to take him home and he'll be washing windows all day.

They looked at me like I had lost my mind. One guy gulped and said "sure, Maam, go right ahead".

I told my son to sit outside (out of hearing range) so I could further talk to these people.

I made sure he was out of ear shot and (I'm still standing mind you), and I said '

"What the heck is going on, why are you all staring at me like I lost my mind".

The principal said "Are you kidding, you are not like any mother we have ever seen, you acknowledged what he did, you are making him accountable, LOOK AT THE OTHER ROOMS AND LISTEN TO WHAT WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO ALL DAY LONG'.

They congratulated me on nailing the problem and making him responsible.

I thanked them and assured them that there would be no more incidents for the ramainder of the junior high school year. There wasn't.

As my son and I are walking home (6 blocks from the school to our home), and it was winter and freezing and he had on this thick Fila Jacket and he's bigger than me so I know that I'm not hurting him if I swat him, I said to him:

"Are you out of your mind, pushing a security guard, (and I whomped him in the arm, but knowing he felt nothing bcause he's a big kid and he has all this padding on him". And I'm whomping him on his arm, his shoulder "he felt nothing because I don't hit kids and he was BIG. I just wanted him to feel my frustration, so I did this all the way down the block.

He burst out laughing and said "Mom, I get the message, stop doing this, you'll hurt yourself". I said "hurt myself, don't worry about me hurting myself, you're gonna feel how much I hurt myself, being called to your school because you PUSHED A GUARD, Are you out of your mind?"

And he's hysterical because I'm still whomping him but he's so thickly padded he felt nothing.

So we got home, I got the windex and the cloths, and he washed all my windows, and went to his room, and did his homework. My husband came home I told him and he said "Oh you did the tough love thing, Good'

So until he graduated high school, there was only one more incident and he went off of his father and we punished him for that, but school wise, he was a model student, and got on the Deans' list.

Unfortunately, he left home at age 20, started gambling and made bad choices so essentially he is not family oriented so I had to make a decision. Drive myself crazy, or put myself first.

I decided on the latter.

I would do NOTHING different if I could go back in time. To do NOTHING would have enabled him to be a criminal. I believe in cause and effect and consequences and accountablility.

And the school system should be shot because they let the kids get away with murder.

One more thing he did (before the guard thing).

He was almost 12, hung with a bad crowd and I overheard him on the phone talking about how he stole the deans's key to his office.

I went into the living room and pressed speaker and listened in on his conversation (I don't care if it's right or wrong, you do what you do when you are a mom).

I heard my son and a kid talking about how he stole the key and was going to break into the office to get something out of the guy's drawer.

When their conversation was over. I marched into the other room and I said "we are going to see the dean tomorrow morning and you'll return the key that you stole, and you'll accept whatever they give you as punishment. He knew he got caught and stayed in his room.

The next morning my husband and I brought my son to see the dean, who didn't know that he stole the key.

We sat down in front of this dean (the head dean, mind you) and I said "Frank has something to tell you." My son said "Dean, I stole your key and I want to return it, I'm sorry". and he told the story.

WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE DEAN DID? BECAUSE I ALMOST FELL OFF OF THE CHAIR.

The dean stood up, saying "Frank, I want to shake your hand, it was very brave of you to return the key". AND HE SHOOK HIS HAND. And you should have seen the wheels going on in my son's head. He knew he was not in trouble.

I stared at the guy. I said "Brave of him??, we brought him in".

He said "nevertheless, he returned the key, and I'm proud of him".

I shook my head, took him home, and he was grounded.

The next thing was the guard thing, and no more stuff after that.

See what I mean? The school doesn't do anything.

No wonder kids do what they do.

Anyway, just wanted to share what had happened to me MANY years ago.

Take care,

Melody

I agree Melody......lack of accountability is a huge issue nowadays

And, Melody, it's not just the schools. A friend of mine had a similar experience.

Her husband left home when their son was 14, causing an otherwise gentle boy to rebel. My friend already had her hands full with the situation when at 4:00 one morning she gets a call to come get her son from jail.

He had snuck out of the house after she had fallen asleep. Took her car keys and went joy riding. She had already meted out her own punishment, but felt he should also understand the consequences of breaking the law.

She didn't hire an attorney. Instead went to court and made him plead guilty. When the prosecutor recommended 4 weeks community service, she agreed, because she wanted her son to learn his lesson. In fact she thought that was getting off too easy.

But, the judge told her she was responsible for her son, fined her $500 dollars and let the son off with nothing. What did he learn from that? It was OK for him to break the law, because his mom would have to pay?

That is exactly what he learned. Fortunately, after about a year of rebellion, his gentle nature finally won out. But I wonder how many criminals that judge has turned out, by not teaching children responsibility when they are still young enough to learn it.

Wow, interesting story. I feel for your friend. Thankfully, her son straightened himself out.

During the time when my son was 12 and doing the stealing of the school key, and other such nonsense, we started tough love meetings. We wanted to nip it in the bud. He was an only child, but kids DO do stuff and you have to show them they can't get away with it.

Where did we take him the following saturday? To the Scared Straight Program at Rahway Prison. We had seen a documentary and we watched how the convicts put the kids on the stage in an auditorium setting and each convict would go up and down and scream and tell the kids that YOU ARE GOING TO WIND UP HERE if you don't straighten up.

I will never forget that experience as long as I live. You should have seen the teenagers that were being marched in by their youthful offender guards. Don't know what else to call these guards. It seemed that when a kid is under 18 and over 10 or something like that and they commit crimes, they might wind up in juvenile detention centers. So once in a while, they will bring group of these kids to the Scared Straight Program.

The day we got there was the first and last time I have ever spent in a prison.

We walked in and sat down, (they took Frank into another room, got him on line, and we had to wait to be seated in the auditorium with the parents).

So all of a sudden, all these guards came out with rifles and guns, and I just jumped out of my seat.

This was not in the prison itself but out of the auditorium.

So we are all ushered into this auditorium which is encased in a cage. The convicts are on the outside of the cage, and we are inside and seated.

All of a sudden three convicts aproach us, and sit with us and say "Okay, tell me what the problem with your son is". We spoke to the guy (turns out he was in for life for murder) BUT WAS THE NICEST CARING GUY I HAVE EVER SPOKEN TO. He explained that the prisoners don't get any special favors for doing this, they just want to do their part so these young ones don't end up like they do.

So we had a chat. Next thing I know I see my son sitting with about 50 kids squatting on the floor on the stage arranged in a circle. Each convict took his turn. Because our son's back was to us he couldn't see us or what we were doing. All of a sudden, the convict sitting with us, motions the guy on the stage, points to Frank, as if to say "Single him out and give it to him good".

The convict did so. They must have codes that they use between them.

I watched my surroundings and outside of the cage, were the other convicts, and Inside the cage (near us but not next to us), were armed guards.

I never saw such things in all my life.

When it was over, you saw lots of kids crying on the stage as they were being marched off.

It was a VERY DIFFERENT GROUP coming off the stage that WENT ON THE STAGE.

Some got the message.

Going home in the car, my son blurted out "I don't know what you thought this would do for me, but I wasn't scared". Yes, he was.

My son didn't have any more STUFF happening until he turned 15.

So from age 12 to 15, he was behaved in school. Had his little meltdowns at home but we talked him through it.

He always said "It's about control, I have to be in control"

Without going to much into what we have been through with this kid, I'd just like to tell you a dialogue I had with him a few years ago (after he left home).

He has never worked a day in his life, saying "I have anxiety, I can't do this, I can't do that" He's a gambler. And he lives for video games on the computer.

I once asked him 'why did you really leave home". His reply:

"Let me ask you one thing, would you have let me stay there, not work, and you take care of me, and I could stay in my room and not have to anything, would you have allowed that?"

I said "are you out of your mind, what kind of parent would do that, what kind of mother would I have been to let you live like that, with no responsibility".?

His reply "now you know why I left".

Never forgot that.

never will

So I will now end all the discussions about my private life.

This experience has changed me so much. I have had to re-think my priorities and decide to MAKE MYSELF COME FIRST.

So I sprout.

lol
I'm better for it. I do videos on youtube, and I have made friends.

Not easy at age 62. But I did it.

Take care, and thanks for listening.

Melody