[gday]

We are both concern what will happen when I die. I am a payee. We are on dial-up.

I would like to tell the him how to deal with a new payee. Since we are related. Social Security is not picky at sharing a joint account. Which will change-when I die. He has been disabled before he was 18 years old. He will be eligible for survivors from both of us.

He wants to know.
How does the payee pay his bills?
How does he get money to pay for groceries? He does are shopping for us.
Will they allow him money to pay for a credit card payment or will they payee pay them directly?
He does want internet, want to rent dvds, and maybe have cable tv. He is not sure if he wants cable tv.

He really doesn't want a payee when I die but he is afraid he will lose it. He is really good with prepaid debit card, terrible with checking accounts. I do think he could handle one & only one checking account with no overdraft coverage. The reason his is worried about this. I showed him this "If SSA believes your condition has improved to the point that you no longer need a payee, we may reevaluate your eligibility for disability payments." Myself, I notice that this is in direct conflict with this rule. You will only lose your payment if you become substantially gainfully employed.

Currently his receives SSI & SSDI. He will eventually receive SSDI and no SSI in the future. My income does not count, since he is over 18.

Is there any age that he can not have a payee? His disability has not improved but he good with debit cards.

I told him, if he doesn't want a payee move out of the country like to Ecuador. He would still get his SSDI or survivors.

In my opinion the direct express debit card would be a way to reduce who needs a payee. People will have a choice if they want a payee unless they have a legal guardian. Those would still have to have a payee.

[Janke]

Originally Posted by gday

We are both concern what will happen when I die. I am a payee. We are on dial-up.

I would like to tell the him how to deal with a new payee. Since we are related. Social Security is not picky at sharing a joint account. Which will change-when I die. He has been disabled before he was 18 years old. He will be eligible for survivors from both of us.

He wants to know.
How does the payee pay his bills?
How does he get money to pay for groceries? He does are shopping for us.
Will they allow him money to pay for a credit card payment or will they payee pay them directly?
He does want internet, want to rent dvds, and maybe have cable tv. He is not sure if he wants cable tv.

He really doesn't want a payee when I die but he is afraid he will lose it. He is really good with prepaid debit card, terrible with checking accounts. I do think he could handle one & only one checking account with no overdraft coverage. The reason his is worried about this. I showed him this "If SSA believes your condition has improved to the point that you no longer need a payee, we may reevaluate your eligibility for disability payments." Myself, I notice that this is in direct conflict with this rule. You will only lose your payment if you become substantially gainfully employed.

Currently his receives SSI & SSDI. He will eventually receive SSDI and no SSI in the future. My income does not count, since he is over 18.

Is there any age that he can not have a payee? His disability has not improved but he good with debit cards.

I told him, if he doesn't want a payee move out of the country like to Ecuador. He would still get his SSDI or survivors.

In my opinion the direct express debit card would be a way to reduce who needs a payee. People will have a choice if they want a payee unless they have a legal guardian. Those would still have to have a payee.

For adults who do not have willing and responsible family members or friends, there are bonded payee agencies. A case manager writes checks to the landlord an)d other bills (depending upon the situation of the adult and doles out a weekly or twice monthly allowance for spending money. A budget is created. Bonded payee agencies are scrutinized very closely by SSA, much more than a parent or friend, and if there is payee fraud, the money in the bond or insurance would cover the fraud. If the family member or friend commits payee fraud, often the disabled claimant is out of luck on getting reimbursed.

It is not unusual for even developmentally disabled adults to learn how to manage their money, through lots and lots of training. However, it is also not unusual for developmentally disbled adults to be easily swindled or conned out of their money.

Is there a responsible and willing sibling?

[gday]

I can see him not working with the payee. Payee agencies requires a contract with the beneficiary and I can see him refusing to sign it. I told him, not sign anything without checking with lawyer if you don't understand it.

He considered moving to Ecuador for two reasons. Cheaper living cost & payee would not be required. There would be no payee agencies. He could also start fresh without worrying about his credit.

I also told him other option.
If he is 65. He could stay In the U.S. waive his SSDI & get SSI without being disabled. This way he can be his own payee. I told him to get the Direct express card or its replacement. He might be better off waving his SSDI, when he is 65.

In fact, He is the only one I trust with my estate, which is not much at all.

[Janke]

Originally Posted by gday

I also told him other option.
If he is 65. He could stay In the U.S. waive his SSDI & get SSI without being disabled. This way he can be his own payee. I told him to get the Direct express card or its replacement. He might be better off waving his SSDI, when he is 65.

In fact, He is the only one I trust with my estate, which is not much at all.

Wrong. SSI has a requirement that a person file for and receive any other benefits to which they may be entitled. If he chooses to stop his SSDI benefits, SSI will be denied. Also, if he gets your minimal estate, he could be over the resource limit and not eligible for SSI.

Being age 65 doesn't mean he is now capable of managing his own benefits. He would still have to prove he is capable since SSA has determined he is not capable.

Having a debit card may be easier to manage than a bank account, but doesn't make a person more responsible, more likely to pay rent and not get conned. He could be swindled just as easily with a debit card. He could lose the debit card and then be without money and hungry for some time while he waits for a replacement card.

Moving out of the country doesn't mean he doesn't need a payee.

Benefits can stop if someone shows significant medical improvement and going from needing a payee to not needing a payee shows some improvement. It may or not be considered significant medical improvement. But you can't have it both ways. You can't establish that he is now able to manage money and also say he is still as impaired as he was when he couldn't manage money. Doesn't mean he will be ceased when a CDR is done. SSA looks at the totality of the evidence.

[gday]

He is considered permanently disabled but doesn't mean he cant handle his own finances. 1/2 the people who are not disabled can't handle money. Everyone makes mistakes including me.

Originally, SSI should change into his name, when he turned 18 or 21 but didn't. That was a mistake, they never did. It cause some problems with banks.

I told him. To waive SSDI at 65 & file a new application with SSI based on income only. I aware of that rule, that only if they are disabled.

I read about moving out of the country. There are no payee agencies so they would have to let him manage his own finances. This applies as well in the U.S. if he lives no where near a payee agency.

I think I let him have to much control. So, he still wants the control. It makes him very unsecure when someone else has to much control. He wants to pay bills, do grocery shopping, rent dvd, use computer, watch tv & so on without getting approval to spend.

In my opinion, there shouldn't be a payee unless the beneficiary has guardian or the beneficiary wants it.

Debit cards didn't exist when he was 18 or 21. Now it does. He does having problems. He has two credit (I should of said no) card. I made him close one-he still owes on that. The other, I am going to let him keep. It is walmart credit card. I think he will need that, while he fight SS.

I think disabled people want to feel independent.

[gday]

Benefits can stop if someone shows significant medical improvement and going from needing a payee to not needing a payee shows some improvement. It may or not be considered significant medical improvement. But you can't have it both ways. You can't establish that he is now able to manage money and also say he is still as impaired as he was when he couldn't manage money. Doesn't mean he will be ceased when a CDR is done. SSA looks at the totality of the evidence.

Not true. Anyone can be trained and still have a disability. He is actually good & terrible with money. It is a true contradiction. I let him handle the checking a time or two. Not very good at that. I let him use a debit card. Very good at that. I still let him use the debit card to get our groceries. He also good with cash. I am going to let him handle my estate-even though there not much at all. I trust him. He does have problems saving receipts though.

Payees shouldn't exist unless you have a guardian or the beneficiary wants one.

There was also a mistake made by SSI. It should of been put in his name when he turned 18 or 21. It was not.

[Janke]

Originally Posted by gday

Not true. Anyone can be trained and still have a disability. He is actually good & terrible with money. It is a true contradiction. I let him handle the checking a time or two. Not very good at that. I let him use a debit card. Very good at that. I still let him use the debit card to get our groceries. He also good with cash. I am going to let him handle my estate-even though there not much at all. I trust him. He does have problems saving receipts though.

Payees shouldn't exist unless you have a guardian or the beneficiary wants one.

There was also a mistake made by SSI. It should of been put in his name when he turned 18 or 21. It was not.

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0200502020

The decision about needing a payee is not made by a disabled beneficiary. It is made by SSA. A person who is capable of managing their own benefits cannot ask SSA to give their money to someone else to manage. And although you may not know any examples, there are plenty of developmentally disabled and/or organic brain damaged adults and/or drug addicts/alcoholics who do not make good decisions about spending money and have to have payees even if they don't want them. There are people who will spend every penny they get the day they get it and be hungry and homeless. But using your criteria, if they don't want a payee, they shouldn't have to have a payee and be allowed to be hungry and homeless, as long as they get to spend money the way they want.

Your son can provide current medical evidence from his treating doctor (a form SSA-787) and be made his payee in a very short time, the day he submits the evidence and files the application. And like I said, becoming his own payee does show SOME medical improvement but it doesn't automatically mean benefits will be ceased.

So he is an SSI recipient then? Never worked?

SSI is not paid for people who are not living in the US. So moving to Ecuador would mean zero SSI benefits. I don't know what kind of SSDI you think he would be waiving at age 65 or do you mean retirement Social Security?

I have read all your posts and am still confused.

[gday]

He was disabled before 18, so he is eligible for mine, his dad Social Security or survivors if one or both us dies. So he will get SSDI or SSDI survivors but will lose his SSI. I don't think he will get a lot more on money SSDI. neither of US worked enough. That why I told him to wait to 65 to rock the boat. This way if they say he is no longer disabled and can't get SSDI, they can gradually convert him to SSI based on income. Unless congress changes that.

He doesn't get much money on mine. However, I don't think he will get that much more with his dads. Which is at least 10 years away unless he dies.

Just to Note. Our state law, allows beneficiary to choose/approve their payee even for federal benefits.

As soon I get the SSI, SS & mine, almost every penny is spent within 2 weeks. It goes Shelter, Food, Bills. Most bills are due around the 1st. Which I hate. We shouldn't have internet. It keeps my son entertained and me looking for work, which I should be retied. I am working but at a very low paying job. I pay really cheap dial-up. The computer was giving to us. It is easier to pay some bills. For SSI My income doesn't count, since he is over 18. If I got a job that paid over $1000 a month he would lose his SSDI but his SSI would increase tell I turned 66.

[LIT LOVE]

While you wrote this:

Originally Posted by gday

"How does he get money to pay for groceries? He does are shopping for us."

You also wrote this:

Originally Posted by gday

I think I let him have to much control. So, he still wants the control. It makes him very unsecure when someone else has to much control. He wants to pay bills, do grocery shopping, rent dvd, use computer, watch tv & so on without getting approval to spend.

When you said "he wants to pay bills, do grocery shopping..." I thought you meant the present tense. That he was unhappy to not have that control right now.

Are you already allowing him to completely manage his own finances? Are you a Representative Payee in name only?

Please confirm--the situation is that you are currently receiving SSDI for yourself. You work a pt job. Your son receives SSI and auxillary benefits from your SSDI claim?

[gday]

No. I am not disabled. In fact, I am drawing my own SS retirement. Social Security is the one that told me, to let him handle some money and bills before I can no longer help him. So, I am not breaking the payee rules I got permission but I was to oversee him. Not in writing but verbal. The part time job is to low for it to count against my SS.