[Jomar]

I think this is something that is very confusing to many.

And many can get mixed up when asking questions about them.

If you have a good clear & simple link that explains each, or if you can explain what each one is about- that would be great.

I know sometimes all the legal wordiness on some sites makes my eyes cross...

keep it simple please for all of us.

[legalmania]

This is the wording from the SSA site can't get any simpler than this:

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answ...i%20and%20ssdi

[Jomar]

Thanks,
Looks like public domain so we can post it here.
[As a public agency, we generally don't own rights to material on our website. (Almost all of the material consists of new or republished government documents and as such, it is considered public domain.)]


Difference between Social Security disability and SSI disability

[Social Security is responsible for two major programs that provide benefits based on disability:
Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI), which is based on prior work under Social Security,
and
Supplemental Security Income (SSI).
Under SSI, payments are made on the basis of financial need.

Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) is financed with Social Security taxes paid by workers, employers, and self-employed persons. To be eligible for a Social Security benefit, the worker must earn sufficient credits based on taxable work to be "insured" for Social Security purposes. Disability benefits are payable to blind or disabled workers, widow(er)s, or adults disabled since childhood, who are otherwise eligible. The amount of the monthly disability benefit is based on the Social Security earnings record of the insured worker.

Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a program financed through general revenues. SSI disability benefits are payable to adults or children who are disabled or blind, have limited income and resources, meet the living arrangement requirements, and are otherwise eligible. The monthly payment varies up to the maximum federal benefit rate, which may be supplemented by the State or decreased by countable income and resources. ]

posted info is from the same link as given by previous poster -
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/websitepolicies.htm

[Rickey]

Originally Posted by Jo*mar

Thanks,
Looks like public domain so we can post it here.
[As a public agency, we generally don't own rights to material on our website. (Almost all of the material consists of new or republished government documents and as such, it is considered public domain.)]


Difference between Social Security disability and SSI disability

[Social Security is responsible for two major programs that provide benefits based on disability:
Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI), which is based on prior work under Social Security,
and
Supplemental Security Income (SSI).
Under SSI, payments are made on the basis of financial need.

Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) is financed with Social Security taxes paid by workers, employers, and self-employed persons. To be eligible for a Social Security benefit, the worker must earn sufficient credits based on taxable work to be "insured" for Social Security purposes. Disability benefits are payable to blind or disabled workers, widow(er)s, or adults disabled since childhood, who are otherwise eligible. The amount of the monthly disability benefit is based on the Social Security earnings record of the insured worker.

Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a program financed through general revenues. SSI disability benefits are payable to adults or children who are disabled or blind, have limited income and resources, meet the living arrangement requirements, and are otherwise eligible. The monthly payment varies up to the maximum federal benefit rate, which may be supplemented by the State or decreased by countable income and resources. ]

posted info is from the same link as given by previous poster -
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/websitepolicies.htm

Thanks Jo*mar, that pretty much somes up the question I had.

[Janke]

Originally Posted by Jo*mar

I think this is something that is very confusing to many.

And many can get mixed up when asking questions about them.

If you have a good clear & simple link that explains each, or if you can explain what each one is about- that would be great.

I know sometimes all the legal wordiness on some sites makes my eyes cross...

keep it simple please for all of us.

In 1974, the Social Security Administration was given the job of administering the brand new Supplemental Security Income program when the federal government took over the previous state programs that provided assistance to the low income elderly and disabled. My own grandmother finally had some money to live on in the last few years of her life since neither she nor my grandfather had ever paid any Social Security taxes since my grandfather's work in agriculture was not covered by Social Security before 1951.

SSI is a safety net for the neediest of the disabled and elderly. As an "entitlement" program, no one "pays into" SSI. It is standard practice in Social Security offices for the interviewer to take a claim for both SSI and SSDI. The decision that a person is disabled is the same for both programs, so SSI cannot pay benefits when a claimant is found not disabled. SSI does not have a waiting period after onset date before benefits begin. SSDI does have a five month waiting period after onset date. SSI is not retroactive before the application is filed. SSDI can be 12 months retroactive before the application is filed if the onset date is in the past.

To qualify for SSI, your income, resources and living arrangements have to be verified by SSA. It can be quite invasive because the agency has to know a great deal about your personal and private business for as long as you get a check. SSI can change amounts every month. SSI can start and stop, go up and down for a variety of reasons. Your spouse's money can determine whether or not you get SSI. You have to pretty much exhaust your assets down to $2000 to qualify for SSI. The amount of the SSI check depends upon your income and living arrangements.

Disabled children who have never paid Social Security taxes can get SSI benefits if the parents have limited income and resources. Certain non-citizens who are recent or long term immigrants who have never paid Social Security taxes can get SSI benefits. US born adults who have never or barely have held a job can get SSI benefits. None of the SSI payments come from the Social Security 'trust funds'. The money can be federal and state (depending upon your state's criteria). The claimants have to meet the income, living arrangement and resource criteria.

To get SSDI you have to pay Social Security (FICA, OASDI) payroll taxes for enough years and be found disabled. There can be an offset for worker's comp or other public disability benefits. Sometimes your dependent family members can get benefits - not always. But it is not a needs based program. There are no limits on the amount of other unearned income (pension, rental, dividend, interest) income you can make. There are no limits on how much savings you can have or how much property you have, or how much money your spouse makes. The amount of the SSDI check is directly determined by the amount of your lifetime earnings and how much you paid into the program.

Your local SSA office takes claims on both programs and they will err on the side of taking a claim and denying it rather than not take a claim when they should. Each case is different so it is difficult to explain why it is often a good idea to take both SSI and SSDI. Mostly, it would be for the person who has worked just enough to have enough credits for SSDI but really has no other assets. Also, some people need medical coverage so badly that they want to qualify for Medicaid which comes with SSI.

The SSI does have to be "paid back" or is offset from the retroactive SSDI benefits when the SSI would have been less in the retroactive period if the SSDI had been paid on time instead of retroactively. That is called windfalloffset. It is not necessarily a dollar for dollar pay back. Every case is different. The windfall offset can be a complex complication and often waiting for it to be completed bogs down the processing of the retroactive SSDI benefits.

I know this is long, but I think it is helpful information.

[Rickey]

I usually get a letter about once a year from the SSA stating that if I were to become disabled, I would receive a certain amount each month. The letter does explain how they come up with this amount. Like Janke said, the amount of FICA I paid in over the years. I don’t recall ever seeing anything on these letters about SSI, I guess because they are two different things all together. As I said in another thread, my baby brother passed away several years ago and he had three children. My parents had to take guardianship over the children because their mother was about to loose them to DHRS. The children do receive my brother’s social security in the line of survivor’s benefits which is very limited. With both my parents being on SSDI which is also very limited, wouldn’t the children or my parents have qualified for SSI? We lost my dad back in May of 2010, so now my mother only gets his survivor’s benefits which are way less that his SSDI check was. It is very hard on my mother trying to survive from month to month. My oldest nephew is over 18 now so his check has stopped. The oldest girl will be 18 in May so her check will stop. I wonder if my mother and the younger niece would qualify for SSI. My two other brothers live there close to my mom and they do help her as much as possible. I don't really have any money to help her but I do anyway from time to time. I think I’ll get mom to call SSA and talk to them about it.

Update:
I called my mother who lives in Florida. She told me that she has called SSA about SSI. Even though dad's and my nephew's check was stopped. Her and the two remaining children get $1483.00 combined a month, the income qualification in Florida is $1400.00 max. She is $83.00 over. They told her that in May when my older niece turns 18, she should qualify. She applied for food stamps and they turned her down because of the $1483.00 income. She has to pay the light bill, phone bill, homeowners insurance and health insurance for the kids because they don't qualify for Medicaid. And she has to feed them all on top of this. They deny her a $200 to $300 a month SSI benefits and food stamps because she gets $83.00 a month to much. So much for the government helping the people.

[Janke]

Originally Posted by rlj1959

I usually get a letter about once a year from the SSA stating that if I were to become disabled, I would receive a certain amount each month. The letter does explain how they come up with this amount. Like Janke said, the amount of FICA I paid in over the years. I don’t recall ever seeing anything on these letters about SSI, I guess because they are two different things all together. As I said in another thread, my baby brother passed away several years ago and he had three children. My parents had to take guardianship over the children because their mother was about to loose them to DHRS. The children do receive my brother’s social security in the line of survivor’s benefits which is very limited. With both my parents being on SSDI which is also very limited, wouldn’t the children or my parents have qualified for SSI? We lost my dad back in May of 2010, so now my mother only gets his survivor’s benefits which are way less that his SSDI check was. It is very hard on my mother trying to survive from month to month. My oldest nephew is over 18 now so his check has stopped. The oldest girl will be 18 in May so her check will stop. I wonder if my mother and the younger niece would qualify for SSI. My two other brothers live there close to my mom and they do help her as much as possible. I don't really have any money to help her but I do anyway from time to time. I think I’ll get mom to call SSA and talk to them about it.

Update:
I called my mother who lives in Florida. She told me that she has called SSA about SSI. Even though dad's and my nephew's check was stopped. Her and the two remaining children get $1483.00 combined a month, the income qualification in Florida is $1400.00 max. She is $83.00 over. They told her that in May when my older niece turns 18, she should qualify. She applied for food stamps and they turned her down because of the $1483.00 income. She has to pay the light bill, phone bill, homeowners insurance and health insurance for the kids because they don't qualify for Medicaid. And she has to feed them all on top of this. They deny her a $200 to $300 a month SSI benefits and food stamps because she gets $83.00 a month to much. So much for the government helping the people.

The problem with any limit is that there will ALWAYS be someone over the limit. If the limit is increased by $83, then the people that are $84 over the limit are still left out. If you keep moving the limit, there will always be someone who is over the limit until you do away with limits entirely. Doubtful that you think everyone in the US should be paid a check or get food stamps. You may not agree with the dollar amount of the limit because your family is over the limit, but surely you don't agree that public assistance benefits should be paid to everyone, without limits.

Second, SSI is not a survivor benefit. It can be paid to a disabled child. If your neice and nephew are not disabled, there is no way they can qualify for SSI benefits. So to answer your first question, no they have never been able to qualify for SSI benefits.

Third, SSI is not a family benefit. It is paid to an individual. Doesn't sound like your mother got correct information about SSI. The federal SSI benefit is, at most, $674. If your mother is over age 65 and her own income exceeds $674, your mother cannot qualify for federal SSI benefits. I am not sure if Florida has a state supplement. California does. In states with a state supplement, the state adds money on top of the federal amount and the SSI recipients get more money to live on. Perhaps your mother only asked questions about getting TANF or Medicaid or Food Stamps because the numbers you are giving do not represent how SSI is computed.

The people who do qualify for SSI and TANF and food stamps live on less money than your mother does. It was generous and loving of your parents to take on these children. Perhaps the adult grandchildren need to do whatever is necessary to help out grandma now.

[Rickey]

Originally Posted by Janke

The problem with any limit is that there will ALWAYS be someone over the limit. If the limit is increased by $83, then the people that are $84 over the limit are still left out. If you keep moving the limit, there will always be someone who is over the limit until you do away with limits entirely. Doubtful that you think everyone in the US should be paid a check or get food stamps. You may not agree with the dollar amount of the limit because your family is over the limit, but surely you don't agree that public assistance benefits should be paid to everyone, without limits.

Second, SSI is not a survivor benefit. It can be paid to a disabled child. If your neice and nephew are not disabled, there is no way they can qualify for SSI benefits. So to answer your first question, no they have never been able to qualify for SSI benefits.

Third, SSI is not a family benefit. It is paid to an individual. Doesn't sound like your mother got correct information about SSI. The federal SSI benefit is, at most, $674. If your mother is over age 65 and her own income exceeds $674, your mother cannot qualify for federal SSI benefits. I am not sure if Florida has a state supplement. California does. In states with a state supplement, the state adds money on top of the federal amount and the SSI recipients get more money to live on. Perhaps your mother only asked questions about getting TANF or Medicaid or Food Stamps because the numbers you are giving do not represent how SSI is computed.

The people who do qualify for SSI and TANF and food stamps live on less money than your mother does. It was generous and loving of your parents to take on these children. Perhaps the adult grandchildren need to do whatever is necessary to help out grandma now.

I never said anything about they should change their limit and no I don't believe that everyone should be paid public assistance benefits without limits. I don't agree with it just like I don't agree with most of the rules set by the SSA whether it's in Florida or Alabama or any other state. I don't know anything at all about SSI; I only know what my mother told me. I was only stating my mom's situation with the kids in this post. Florida doesn’t go by one person’s income either. My mother gets SSDI and she is over 65, I have no idea how much she gets every month but Florida doesn’t go by her income alone. They add up the total income in the entire house hold and go by that. Even though most of that income is the children’s survivors benefits from their dad. My point is that the SSA rules and limits make life hard for my mother, me and most everybody else that is disabled. I know that I can't change their rules and I know that are not going to bend the rules for anyone. I still don't have to agree with or like their rules. As for the kids helping my mother, both the girls are still in school but they do most all the house work because my mother can't walk. The nephew has searched for a job since he got out of school. Jobs in north west Florida are like chicken teeth, very few and far between. Especially for a 19 year old boy with no work experience to speak of. He has worked around my brother's shop helping mechanic but he is by no means a mechanic. I doubt he knows the difference between a ball peen hammer and a torque wrench.

[Samm]

What makes matters worse, often state agencies and members of Congress do not understand the difference.

[Rickey]

Originally Posted by Samm

What makes matters worse, often state agencies and members of Congress do not understand the difference.

This is very true. They make up the rules and regulations but they have no idea or just don't care how these rules effect people like us.