[puppy66]

I have been trying to figure out how to sum this up so someone might take the time to read my post and help me with my predicament.

I will skip the beginnings of my information and jump right to the end. I had my hearing in front of the judge on September 15, 2011... Within 2 weeks I received an unfavorable decision, dated September 23rd. I had a solid work history, having worked for the same company for over 10 years. I applied for SSDI on November 1, 2009. I did not work from 11/1/2009 through 6/30/2010. Due to severe financial constraints I decided I would try working to see if maybe I could struggle through and do it. That attempt failed. I worked full time for 6 weeks but I just could not do it and my doctor dropped my hours down to 20 hours per week, which lasted for 2 weeks, and then my doctor dropped my hours down again to 16 hours per week (limiting me to 4 hour shifts at most). I have been working at that level since then (august 2010). I work out of my home and it really does constitute a sheltered work environment and would never be allowed at an office.
Anyway, so here I am waiting for my appeal decision at the Appeals Council in Virginia. I am still working my hours but I honestly just can't do it anymore but feel at this point like I can't quit. It's a catch 22. I can't do it anymore but I'm too afraid to quit and if I do, I fear they will use that too against me. If I try to cut down my work even more, my employer will probably laugh in my face and say goodbye. Has anyone gotten a doctor's note to quit a job. Maybe I should consider taking a medical leave. If I quit my job is the judge going to say I did that because I got denied the 1st time due to working part time? Any ideas?

I suppose I should have let my kids go hungry, allow foreclosure on my house, and live out of my car and then I probably would have been approved benefits back on Sept. 15th. It is so wrong and unfair.

[bdh1]

Originally Posted by puppy66

I have been trying to figure out how to sum this up so someone might take the time to read my post and help me with my predicament.

I will skip the beginnings of my information and jump right to the end. I had my hearing in front of the judge on September 15, 2011... Within 2 weeks I received an unfavorable decision, dated September 23rd. I had a solid work history, having worked for the same company for over 10 years. I applied for SSDI on November 1, 2009. I did not work from 11/1/2009 through 6/30/2010. Due to severe financial constraints I decided I would try working to see if maybe I could struggle through and do it. That attempt failed. I worked full time for 6 weeks but I just could not do it and my doctor dropped my hours down to 20 hours per week, which lasted for 2 weeks, and then my doctor dropped my hours down again to 16 hours per week (limiting me to 4 hour shifts at most). I have been working at that level since then (august 2010). I work out of my home and it really does constitute a sheltered work environment and would never be allowed at an office.
Anyway, so here I am waiting for my appeal decision at the Appeals Council in Virginia. I am still working my hours but I honestly just can't do it anymore but feel at this point like I can't quit. It's a catch 22. I can't do it anymore but I'm too afraid to quit and if I do, I fear they will use that too against me. If I try to cut down my work even more, my employer will probably laugh in my face and say goodbye. Has anyone gotten a doctor's note to quit a job. Maybe I should consider taking a medical leave. If I quit my job is the judge going to say I did that because I got denied the 1st time due to working part time? Any ideas?

I suppose I should have let my kids go hungry, allow foreclosure on my house, and live out of my car and then I probably would have been approved benefits back on Sept. 15th. It is so wrong and unfair.

Bottom line is, the way I understand it, If you work, you're screwed.

[LIT LOVE]

Please read my first post in my Catch 22 sticky.

Qualifying for state disability is generally much easier than for SSDI.

If your doc supports you can no longer work, I'd apply for state disability and then probably start a new SSDI application when you were no longer working at all. Do lots of research and do a more thorough job the second time if possible. (The first application does become part of the original record just so you know.)

What you're describing sounds like a borderline case. So long as you can manage even PT you'll likely struggle to be granted SSDI.

You might also want to check out my SHOCKING Individual ALJ Statistics thread, so you can find your judge's approval rate and your other local statistics.

[puppy66]

Thanks for the input, all and any helps me not feel so alone in this process.

My lawyer says I have a stronger case to stick with my original claim and wait for the Appeal Council's decision, as she thinks I have an excellent chance at a remand. My judge made "significant errors and misapplication of several laws". All the government websites support what my lawyer had original told me about my work activity and it was and still is under what is considered SGA. I feel if the Appeal Council sees the judge's errors and by God's grace I am given a chance at a second hearing then if the judge can get past step one, I have significant medical history, records, surgeries, etc.. and the support of several doctors, including a neurosurgeon and the doctor SSDI had present at my hearing. If I can only get that chance for another hearing then I have come to the conclusion that I can in no way be working even 2 hours a week in order for my case to be considered. With that said, back to my original question for anyone willing to give their input, how am I going to leave my job without it being a red flag to my judge? With that said, I am not going to leave my job just for that reason but I honestly cannot do it anymore (not only due to my pain but my depression and anxiety are out of control and I cannot even concentrate on the little bit I'm trying to do). Do I ask my doctor to write a note explaining to my employer the reason for my leaving the job? Do I just quit on my own? How do I cover my bases so as not to cause more issues with my case. At this point, I need to appeal, as the judge did make many errors and no explanation to support why she felt my work, even though below the SGA, is considered gainful, especially with all of the accomodations I have being at home, i.e. taking 10 minute breaks every 10 minutes. But I do know if I am lucky enough to get back for a 2nd hearing, the job can not be there, as it will just "muddy the waters".

How to leave the job is my question? Does anyone see what I'm saying. Whether I get a remand or have to start over, I feel it is crucial to leave this job in the proper way.

[LIT LOVE]

Discuss it with your doc. He can further reduce your hours. If your employer than can no longer accommodate you, then it's over.

If your doc thinks you should not be working than apply for state disability while waiting for the appeal.

The Appeals Council might deny you, give you a favorable decision, or they might remand your case. Can you hold out a few more years? State Disability will give you a year of benefits while you wait most likely (if your doc agrees.) A new application might be quicker, but you'd lose the backpay.

It is really unfortunate you can no longer do both. Many will be forced into making tough choices about giving up backpay for need of a faster recourse. With your lower income, you might want to consider searching out other resources as well. Can you move in with family for a few years? Add a roomate? Get foodstamps? Etc.

[LIT LOVE]

The process is beyond stressful. Having a disability is as well. Pain and financial strain--ditto.

Seeing a therapist to help you cope during this period is something to consider.

[Mz Migraine]

Originally Posted by puppy66

How to leave the job is my question? Does anyone see what I'm saying.

Take a medical leave of absence if you want to leave your company in good standing rather than just quitting.

I had a solid work history, having worked for the same company for over 10 years.

If you are vested or even partially vested, take a medical retirement. Go to Human Resources to find out your "options."

You really are stuck in a catch 22 situation. You should also ask your attorney for advice. Wish you luck in whatever decision you decide.

[LIT LOVE]

I was researching SSR 11 further since you're the first one at Neurotalk that has written about a scenario that previously would have suggested concurrent applications. Anyway, at socialsecurityinsider they stated it might take up to 18 months for you to hear back from the Appeals Council. Add another 9-18 months for a remand, and you're looking at being in limbo for years. You can find average wait times for ALJ hearings in the statistics by following the link in my SHOCKED thread.

While I understand SS's reason/justification, it's going to create major hardships for countless applicants.

I have met 5 or 6 people over the years that have become homeless during or after the SSDI application process. 1 women I met while waiting at the local SS office lived in her car and then a shelter with her daughter for over 3 years. One man I met in PT lived out of his truck and slept at campgrounds when he could scrape the funds together. A young man I met that helped me when I was struggling with my cart was living on the street after an SSDI denial even though he was delusional and was Schizophrenic. Those that have struggled financially, but have been able to keep their head above water, have had family they could depend upon or they were able to advocate for themselves and get other government resources. I've described it before as a mean game of chicken on the government's part. And honestly there can come a time in anyone's health when regardless if your children go hungry, a person is unable to work.

Personally, I think that attorneys being able to only collect from backpay is a reason why there is such complacency about dragging the process out. Applicants are prepped to expect the odds are against them to get approved early on, but roughly 1/3 of applicants nationwide are approved at the first stage. Attorneys make little to nothing until around the ALJ level, so they've had ZERO incentive to get the process shortened. If attorneys or advocates could make a smaller fee for helping an applicant get approved before backpay is applicable, maybe that extra incentive would be the first step in changing the system.

Just to mention, attorney's can request additional payment past the 25% or $6000 max flat fee rate when representing you past the ALJ level. So, their incentive is always going to be to chase the appeal. They used to be able to do that AND protect their clients urgent needs with the 2nd application. Now, even when a person has a solid legal appeal, it's not always going to be in the clients best Interest to pursue it now, unfortunately. You sure can't pause your children's lives while waiting to get approval!

If there were penalties for egregious legal errors by the ALJ's, maybe that would help as well? The statistics show that there is no consistency.

The effect of mistakes by applicants, by docs, by SS processing, by ALJ's etc. are now compounded since SSR 11 was put into effect in July!

I wish you the best of luck in your battle. Sorry if some of this was a bit off topic, but my thoughts were with you tonight, that's for sure.

[puppy66]

Thanks everyone. LIT LOVE, what is state disability?

As far as losing the back pay, at this point I don't even really care. I just need to be able to survive. I am sure many people who see that I have been working part-time would automatically think then she must not really be disabled. As I said, my work is out of my home and I am getting away with more breaks than not without my employer to date suspecting. I worked for the same company for 10 years but this work I'm doing now is a different company. I think like with anything in life, there are different ends of the spectrum as far as one's disability(ies). From my understanding on the government website and from information from my lawyer, a person does not need to be bedridden to qualify for disability. I am certainly not bedridden, although have been at times, but I cannot sit or stand for more than 10 minutes without changing position.

I too have questioned if I would be better off just starting over because at least then I am not risking losing another year or two waiting for the Appeal Council. My lawyer was very nice and said she feels strongly about the errors and that it was erroneous, but if I decide I want to just start over, she still thinks I have a very strong case and will be there for me either way. My denial letter was literally about 4 pages long, with absolutely no explanation other than since she considered my work activity substantial then I have not met the 12 month duration. Go figure. I was told repeatedly by more than one lawyer and it says on the government website, if work is below the SGA, it will not be considered SGA and they will not just assume because of it that you can work more. Hum... In fact, everywhere I have read it says if you have an UWA and work is reduced below SGA then they will not considered it gainful work. Why do they state that if it obviously is not true.

Could I be working outside my home 16 hours a week, absolutely not. I have been able to plug along, waiting for a decision about SSDI, but I can not long push on. I have also read that many people hear back from the Appeal Council in a year.

[puppy66]

Oh yah, one more thing while I'm venting, I wonder if the Appeal Council will start moving quicker because people have to decide whether to appeal or start over so obviously some are going to just start over instead of trying to appeal at this level. Just a thought.

Also, does anyone know if this is true. I was told that if the lawyer's briefing that is sent along with the appeal is good enough and does the legwork regarding the legal errors of the judge for them then it may get looked at quicker. Not sure if that one's true or not. I would kind of think they would go in order of received. But who knows with the way they work.