Hi all,
I'm in the process of finding representation. I've found a lawyer near my town who seems to have good credentials.
Regarding his fee agreement: it states the normal doodad about getting 25% of back pay with a limit of $6,000.

HOWEVER: it says...
if you are denied at the original hearing and it must be appealed and then you are awarded a new hearing and upon the new hearing you are granted benefits, the $6000 limit is dropped due to the amount of work involved.
So, in essence he gets 25% of ALL back pay with NO limit.

So basically, using easy math let's say a person is awarded $1,000/month.
If the whole process takes 3 yrs, that is $36,000 of back pay
25% of that = $9,000
and if it drags out 4 yrs, that is 48,000.
25% of that = $12,000 he gets.

Is this standard? Is there really 'that' much more work involved for him?
of course the SSA has to authorize the amount he gets, but I mean, wow.

Wouldn't this give him incentive to 'want' to let it drag out?
One would hope not, but....just saying.

Thanks for any input
Rae

If you already have this opinion about your potential representative, then he is not the right one for you.

Another point to think about is that the attorney could also put in hours and hours of work (and attorneys generally bill out at $200-$500 an hour) and get no money at all. At that point, the lawyer would file a fee petition and document every phone call (billing at 1/4 hour), the time it takes him or his staff to complete appeal forms, the time it takes him to read your medical records or prepare a pre-hearing brief, the time he spends in the prehearing discussion with you, etc. etc. If you are the kind of person who wants your lawyer to explain everything, every step of the way, all of those 15 minute phone calls could easily add up quickly

What action or inaction do you believe is under the control of the lawyer in terms of how quickly SSA makes a decision? I suppose agreeing to a date for the hearing is one issue, but a busy representative would have a pretty full calendar and the busy ODAR office doesn't have unlimited empty hearing dates.

But really, if you don't like this clause up front, you won't like it at the back end either so you should probably keep shopping for someone who won't want more money for more work.

I'm brand new at this, don't have a 'clue', overwhelmed, not sure which way to turn, shaking with anxiety, and coming here for support b/c this is a support forum. Though I do appreciate your taking the time to post a response, comments like these kinda feel like a slap in the face.

I do not have an 'opinion' about this particular representative, not sure how you came to that 'opinion'. As a matter of fact, I think this guy IS probably the right one for me. I simply asked if this type of clause is standard procedure with most lawyers.

Never said that I 'didn't like' this clause. Again, I was simply inquiring.

"Keep shopping for someone who won't want more money for more work" .

Not expecting pro bono work after a certain step of the process.

I do thank you for giving me an idea of how much more work an attorney might have to do in a case that drags on. Helps me to see a bit more clearly on what an attorney does behind the scene. Yes, if I were such an attorney, I suppose I'd want more compensation. Makes perfect sense. I suppose all the extra hours he would put into my case would indeed add up to doubling the initial contract amount.

Life is good have a great day

Rae

Does the atty and/or the firm only specializes in SSD cases?

Not sure. I do think he handles other types of claims as well.

I thought most had a limit of some sort... 25% of everything is quite bit..

Is this a SSDI specialist atty or some other type?

I'd double check the contract or find a few others and see if they say the same thing or different..

im sure the lawyer is referring to 25% of everything if in the event you lose at the alj level, appeal to the appeals council or federal court and get another hearing ordered. its not 25% of everything for the initial alj hearing only if you lose the initial hearing and then appeal and then eventually get awarded.

Hi Rrae,

The facts you stated, 25% up to a max of $6000, with SSA approval is standard and should definitely cover one through an ALJ appeal. If a case goes beyond that, I am not sure what is standard.

I do know that if someone winds up appealing at the Federal court level, that is in an entirely different category. At that level there are court costs, filing fees, and LOTS of legal work.

Does the contract state that IF you go beyond the ALJ level, the legal fees would be x,y,z? As long as you still have the discretion of whether you go that far or that you can change attorney at that point, I think signing the contract would be safe as the max would remain at $6000 up to and through an ALJ hearing.

Just my opinion, but money amounts have different impacts on different people. $6000 is a LOT of money to someone like me but may be a drop in the bucket for someone of wealth. The amount of work done by a lawyer up to and through an ALJ hearing varies. Some legal reps do little to earn it and some do a lot. Each case is different.

Regardless of one's financial situation, I personally think a $6000 reduction in back-pay is sure better than NO back-pay and the reason one is usually willing to pay up to that max in legal fees is the assistance rendered in getting through the process.

As far as any amounts above and beyond that for services rendered beyond an ALJ hearing need not be considered until such time as you make a decision to go beyond that level. Talk with your attorney (or potential attorney) to be sure there is a clear understanding of the fee contract arrangement, what it covers and what it does not.

Just my guess, and I do mean I am guessing, but I think the need for approval by the SSA is that they are looking out for the applicant and they are making sure that some unscrupulous attorney does not take advantage of the client.

Good luck to you and just be sure you discuss fully with any attorney exactly what his fee contract does and does not cover and what obligations you will be under and to what level.

Hopeless

There IS an incentive for attorneys to maximize the $6400 fee (or whatever it is currently). I don't personally think it is that time consuming to write an appeal to the Appeal's Council, but since SS allows for higher fees at that point, it is what it is. Most attorneys won't even go forward to the Appeal's Council--and 25% of all backpay would be fair at that point IMO.

You want an attorney that specializes in disability law. WC and/or LTD in addition to SSI/SSDI would be fine, but if he has a more generalized practice, I'd keep looking.

I'm not sure where you are in the process, but it's often more about your medical documentation than legal wrangling frankly. So, you want someone (and that someone can even be you if you want to learn the system) that can determine how close you are to approval.

This is a helpful site for DIY's http://www.ssdfacts.com/forum/ and having used an attorney and subsequently been awarded a Fully Favorable decision without representation, my best advise is to move forward learning everything as if you don't have an attorney, even when you do. You will be your best or worst advocate, depending on how much you learn.

For me, dealing with docs who were dismissive of my complaints of severe pain and having people question my "invisible disability" nd why I was applying for SSDI, often made me feel very defensive. In that mindset, it can be easy to take offense where none was intended.

What was written in the original post shows some basic knowledge of the process and certainly makes it look like you believe this lawyer's additional fees if a case goes beyond the ALJ stage are not standard. Please don't be upset that someone read your first post as more than JUST a question if these extra fees were standard. We are all trying to give an answer that we think will most help a poster.

My short answer to JUST the question of if that clause is standard is: NO.

I don't think that's the MOST helpful answer I could give bsed on everything else that you wrote in your op. I hired the only lawyer that I met with and he didn't have that clause. I haven't read on here, in my years reading/participating in this forum, about any lawyer legally charging more for a case going further.

I believe the SSA rule to be that they can charge up to (although I've never heard of a lawyer charging under) 25% of the award with a cap of $6000 PLUS certain misc fees (like for copying medical records, etc). I don't THINK the SSA makes exceptions for cases that go to the federal level, but I don't KNOW that for sure. You'd have to check that out with the SSA or hopefully one of the more knowledgeable posters here will share that info. I ws under the impression that the lawyers who do SSDI cases will have a few cases that they may only have to do minimal work on, which they'll still get paid the $6000 for if the backpay award is sufficient, and some cases that they will be required to do significantly more work on, but that it all balanced out to the $6000 being a reasonable pay stipend when multiplied by all of the cases they manage.

I would be leery of someone who charged more. I don't doubt the time they they would have to put into a case that went to the federal level would be significant, so they could be "losing" money if they were capped at $6000. I've just been under the impression that that's a risk they take when they take on a case and that they must weigh the likelihood of approval of each case before they take on each case. I would question, as you have stated you have, what their incentive would be to try to close a case quickly if they could draw it out to get more money (not that that would be ethical).

I thought the suggestion that you seemed to have some doubts about this lawyer so you should keep looking was a good one. At a minimum, you should find out if the SSA sanctions that extra fee contingency AND see if any local SSDI lawyers don't charge it.

In another post you mentioned you were thinking this will be your lawyer. What about him made you feel comfortable and confident with his abilities ? Did you get to talk about your concerns about the extra fees being standard ?

This is such a stressful process on top of dealing with the medical factors with a disability. Finding a lawyer that you feel comfortable with is crucial. None of us needs MORE stress from any source. Best wishes getting through the process.