Hi.

I wouldn't even begin to know where a nerve root is. But I will definitely bring that up when we go for the results. Don't know when that will be. They will probably mail the results (or fax) to his neuro, and I gather she will then make an appointment with my husband.

And you KNOW I'll be there.

Will update.

And I can't thank you enough.

Much appreciated.

melody

I would be careful not to put too much info on a chat site. The MRI contains too much info for people that are not here for the right reason. Just a word of caution. I hope all goes well at the docs

Thanks very much. I have requested that these scans be removed. I send a private message to one of the administrators. Thanks for the info.

Now let's get to Alan's report.

He just came home and here is what the IMPRESSIONS ARE:

MRI OF THE LUMBAR SPINE (WITHOUT CONTRAST) The lumbar spine was imaged in sagittal and axial planes utilizing multiecho technique.

1. At L5-S1, there is a broad based disc herniation with severe bilateral foraminal impingment. There is also thecal sac impingement.

2. At L4-5 There is a broad based disc herniation with severe bilateral foraminal impingement. There is also thecal sac impingement.

3. At L3-4 There is a disc bulge and a left foraminal herniation. There is significant bilateral foraminal impingement. There is also significant thecal sac impingement.

Oh, on the first page it also says A prominent hemangioma is seen within the L4 vertebral body.

On the first page )well I don't want to put the whole report in this posting, I just typed in what it said under IMPRESSIONS, on the last page, in bold lettering.

So do any of these impingements and thecal sac things, and whatever, well, do any of these contribute to a person having Peripheral Neuropathy between certain toes of each foot? Not the legs, not anyplace else.

Just between certain toes of each foot.

Thanks much.

Of course, Alan will see his neuro to get her opinion of all this, but I thought I would give it a shot and post the impressions here.

Thanks again

Melody

http://www.chirogeek.com/003_DERMATOME-THEORY.htm

Melody, you might want to read this. In my own opinion and based on what he has going on, yes, it is highly likely that all of this could be causing pain in certain toes. I just had an anterior oblique xray done and will be meeting with my spinal pain doc for the very same thing later on this month. What that report is saying besides the herniations is, yes, there are nerve roots being impinged which is what it looked like to me although I couldn't see the several herniations. Oh, and the thecal sac, if I remember correctly, is also loaded with nerves. I hope your husband gets the answers and help he needs. Best wishes! Oops, forgot to add...these dermatomes overlap. In other words, these charts are just for general info.

Hi. and Thank you very much for your response.

I asked him when he plans to go over this report with his neurologist. He said "I have an appointment in September". I said "In September???" why not call her up and ask her what she thinks?" He said "I'm not bothering her, when she gets this report, and if she notices something, then she'll call me"

He never likes to bother doctors.

He has been on this journey for over 8 years. He has been to countless back guys and they all said 'We can't help you, there is nothing on this MRI that tells us it causes your neuropathy"

Of course that was other MRI's done over the years. This is different and his neuro did say that she thinks his neuropathy comes from his back.

So we shall see.

I shall check on the link you provided.

I wonder though, if they think there is a cause and effect, then what might they do to fix this problem? How do they un-impinge nerve roots?

He was wondering if he should get that Teeter Hang up gadget and hang upside down and get his spine back into allignment?

And there is another gadget (cost about $250) whereupon you lay flat on the floor, you bring your legs up over this gadget and it moves in rotation so you are re-alligning your spine. We saw it on tv and Alan said 'Oh that looks like it would help me"

Oh well, we shall certainly continue to fight the good fight.

Thanks much

Melody

Hi, I'm back, and I just clicked on the link you provided. Interesting reading. I then googled pinched nerves and neuropathy and read some more.

The really interesting aspect of this whole thing is the fact that Alan's chiropractic neurologist gave him back his life a few years ago by taking him on as a patient and using a G5 machine on him.

Every time Alan went to see the chiropractic neurologist, he came home like a new man. He said "oh my god, when he used that G5 machine on me, oh my god, I have to find a physical therapist who uses a G5 machine.

I am still trying to find one. I must have called a dozen physical therapists in our area but so far no luck. These machines are very expensive. But when Alan was lying on the table getting his manipulations, and the guy used the G5, Alan HAD NO PAIN when he got up and for a few hours after.

This must mean SOMETHING

Years go it was thought that Alan had auto immune stuff going on, and I still think he does. He has psoriasis, which is auto-immune.

But his neuropathy, I really do think it's related to his back. And we've been to 4 back guys. They all looked at the MRI's taken at the time, and all said "no, we don't see anything".

How frustrating is this??

Melody

Oh, this TV back thing? http://www.getback2life.com/
- my dad has one of those, he has DDD, stenosis, arthritis... Seems to help him for awhile, he has a TENS that he wears quite a bit too.

--I definitely think, from that MRI report, there's enough evidence of compressed nerves that some sort of therapy is in the offing. He has three disc herniations (at least), meaning the internal contents of the disc has burst through the protective membrane that is supposed to keep it all inside the disc and has spread into the surrounding space, encroaching on the nerve roots at several levels. And given the locations, I would not be surprised if he's got symptoms in his feet, or even in his lower legs, depending on the position he's in.

Certainly, it helps to explain the relief he has gotten with Dr. T in the past--the machines and maneuvers used on him likely opened up space in the foramen and reduced the disc content pressure on his foraminal openings.

The interesting thing would be to compare these images with images in the past to see if the foraminal openings have become more closed off over time. Sometimes, herniations subside--the pressed through disc contents are evenutally re-absorbed by the body, releasing pressure on nerve roots--but sometimes they are sufficiently severe that some sort of surgery would be required to clean up the area. It would be interesting for Alan to get an orthopedic neurosurgical consult (I'm sure his neuro has people to recommend, as do I, if you want). Given his other situations--and his height--it's difficult to say whether surgery would be a primary choice now, or only recommended following other therapies.

I still think, given his autoimmune history, Alan might be co-morbid, and might have a double crush situation invovled in his neuropathy--but there's certianly evidence now that he has compressed nerve roots in his lower back that are sufficient to cause quite a number of symptoms.

Melody, you are welcome. And, yes, it is frustrating. But I really liked what Glenn had to say. He is spot on! Thanks, Glenn, you stated it much better than I did. I am just glad, for your sake Melody and that of your husband's, you are getting some answers now. Oh, but there is one thing I want to emphasize. Glenn is right...get an OSS referral!!

Thank you Kathi and Thank you Glenn:

By an OSS referral, I imagine you mean an Orthopedic surgeon right? He has one. The guy who did the operation on his calf to lengthen a muscle so Alan would not put too much pressure on his foot ulcer. That operation did nothing.

The foot ulcer is a result of his feet being numb, and after his stent, they put him in cardiac rehab which put him on a treadmill (people with neuropathy SHOULD NEVER GO ON TREADMILLS). He never felt the foot ulcer, and the rest is history. He has a malformation of the bone under the foot ulcer, so it will heal and as soon as he walks too much, it recurs. That's why he wears the custom made shoes.

Now let's get back to his back.

I'll try and get the other MRI's he took, and the rest is up to Alan. I'll show him what Glen wrote (thank you very much Glenn),

We shall see what Alan decides to do. If it were me, I'd get all the other MRI's, I'd march to the neurologist, I would say"

"AHA, look at this, I have compressed nerve roots, what can be done about this?"" or something like that.

But I'm not Alan.

He has put on over 35 lbs since he stopped going to the gym because he has depression over our son.

Nothing I can do about that. We cope how we cope and he likes to pick on stuff all night while I'm asleep.

But he IS trying. So when he next meets with his neuro, maybe she'll say "Take these to the orthopedic surgeon who did your calf, and see what he says".

Will update.

And thanks VERY much to you guys.

Much appreciated.

Melody