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Dr. Smith 06-07-2012 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious (Post 886769)
While chiropractors go over the line at times, you should know that quackwatch is run by a psychiatrist who is not at all likely trained in physical medicine so it is not exactly an unbiased source to cite.

Ralph Nader is not an automotive engineer either, and most watchdog sites & organizations are not unbiased; neither are pro-/endorsing sites, professional associations or the like.

Actually, Dr. Barrett is retired, and while he runs Quackwatch (and 23 other watchdog sites), content is contributed and reviewed (when appropriate) by an international network of people from all kinds of backgrounds/professions, including a former chiropractor who contributed:
Quote:

Reader Comment

From a former chiropractor:

I have been doing a vascular surgery rotation for the past month, which is part of my postgraduate medical education. During my chiropractic training, when the subject of manipulation-induced stroke was brought up, we were reassured that "millions of chiropractic adjustments are made each year and only a few incidents of stroke have been reported following neck manipulation." I recently found that two of the patients on my vascular service that suffered a cerebrovascular accident (stroke) had undergone neck manipulation by a chiropractor, one the day that symptoms had begun and the other four days afterward. If indeed the incidence of stroke is rare, one M.D. would see a case of manipulation-induced CVA about every 10 years. But I believe I have seen two in the past month! I therefore urge my medical colleagues to question their patients regarding recent visits to a chiropractor/neck manipulation when confronted with patients that present with the neurologic symptoms of stroke. I also urge potential chiropractic patients to not allow their necks to be manipulated in any way. The risk-to-benefit ratio is much too high to warrant such a procedure.
—Rob Alexander, M.D.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...irostroke.html
I could have cited many many articles, but IMO, Dr. Barrett's was the most comprehensive, best written, and well-referenced I could find in short time. The article's sources are there at the bottom for anyone to follow-up.

I'm sure we could argue this and cite contradicting sources til the cows come home. If people are interested/concerned, they can read all sides of the issues....

Google: chiropractic stroke
Google: chiropractic quackery
Google: debunking chiropractic
(and related searches at the bottoms of these search pages)

...and decide for themselves.

Doc

Dubious 06-07-2012 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Smith (Post 886782)
Actually, Dr. Barrett is retired, and while he runs Quackwatch (and 23 other watchdog sites), content is contributed and reviewed (when appropriate) by an international network of people from all kinds of backgrounds/professions, including a former chiropractor who contributed:
[INDENT]

I could have cited many many articles, but IMO, Dr. Barrett's was the most comprehensive, best written, and well-referenced I could find in short time. The article's sources are there at the bottom for anyone to follow-up.

I'm sure we could argue this and cite contradicting sources til the cows come home. If people are interested/concerned, they can read all sides of the issues....

Google: chiropractic stroke
Google: chiropractic stroke
Google: debunking chiropractic
(and related searches at the bottoms of these search pages)

...and decide for themselves.

Doc

I am familiar with that site. I was a member of a contributing group for many years.

So...a Google search is authorative over peer-reviewed literature?? I am just wondering...what kind of Google results might you get if you instead (of yours) used search words like "chiropractic neck pain," "chiropractic low back pain" or "benefits of chiropractic?"

But then again I don't think this thread was meant to definitively decide the efficacy of an entire profession. We'll leave that up to the insurance companies and poiliticians!

ginnie 06-07-2012 10:03 AM

About chiropracter
 
Hi, and I am sorry about the accident you had. I know you are scared. Anytime they want to do surgery on the back, it is that way.
My suggestion is NOT to do the chiropracter at all at this point. Pulling and pushing on a herniated back is not a good idea. From all I have learned on this site in the several years I have been here, points to NOT doing the chiropracter when surgery is being considered. I would not go in again if I were in your shoes, not until a neruo surgern agrees with this approach.
Too many things are involved with your back. You need top notch professionals to help you.
Also the fact your pain specialst said he could not do more for you. This is not correct. They can and often do more than what you are currently receiving. find a different pain specialist.
I am facing surgery, neither the surgeon, nor my pain specialist wanted to cover post surgical pain. WHAT???? Yep.
What is a pain patient suppose to do? I interviewed 4 different doctors is what I did. I actively looked for a new physician for a month before I found this new person. If one doc. doesn't work out, you have to seek another one. I hated to go out and do that too, but I need the help, so I will work for it. I turned down two of them too! You can say NO, you can decide for yourself, who is good for you.
Pain doctors are afraid to prescribe all the time. You have to find one that has some compassion. My new doc. actually gave me more than what I need. She lets me decide how many per day, and I always pick BELOW what I am allowed. She allowed me some control in my own pain level. That kind of trust ususally takes some time to develope. In this case, this new doctor did trust me, as I brought in all records, charts, MRI, all of it.
Hope you seek the help in all areas of this. Make sure you get a complete understanding of all surgical proceedures. My ankle specialist did not show me my MRI, even though I directly askedhim to do this twice. On the 15th I am going to another ankle specialist for another opinion, as I was NOT satisfied with what he told me. I don't understand, and until I do understand the proceedures needed, my answer will be NO to surgery. My PCP does NOT agree with the surgeon, another reason for another opinion. Yes I have trouble both in my akles and in my neck. I have degenerative joint disease of some kind.
Thank you for telling me about your situation. You have your plate full, and none of it is great. I will look up some more things later. I have a realtor in the middle of my mess, to put my house up for sale...long story.....will be back in touch. ginnie

cboncal1972 06-07-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious (Post 886769)
While chiropractors go over the line at times, you should know that quackwatch is run by a psychiatrist who is not at all likely trained in physical medicine so it is not exactly an unbiased source to cite. Some of what he says may be true; while other information is junk science and represents his own bias against the profession. For example, he alludes that stroke and manipulation run hand in hand while the literature points out that the incidence is 1 in 1 to 3 million manipulations; not even enough really, to list it on informed consent. You have a higher chance of dying from a bee sting or being struck by lightening (this is not an endorsement of chiropractic, just my opinion of a mis-statement). Another perspective, roughly 1 in 1000 die from disc surgery and prescription anti-inflammatory medication. There are many more scientific studies that prove the limited value of manipulation. In fact there is one study out there from a couple years ago that states that you are more likely to have a stroke shortly after seeing your GP than your chiropractor (is that one on his site?). And besides, I know several orthopedists and neurosurgeons as well as neurologists and GP's who refer to chiropractors. They can't be all bad as there are good and bad of everything! Oh...BTW, manipulation under anesthesia is a procedure developed by osteopaths some 50 years ago that actually has very favorable outcomes in the literature. Some chiropractors are trained and certified in this procedure and do quite well with it.

I must say i did really well with the manipulation under anesthia. I got back alot of mobility. I am losing it now. I do walk to try to stay somewhat fit and i chase the little ones thats exercise in its self. the chiropracter also helps with my headaches. When i did p.t. my headaches increased to where i had to stop. i dont feel i was ready for it or the trainer did not know what he was doing. I really felt he could of done more and i will not go back to that one again. i saw another doctor today one of the car ins doc. ime. I was told by him that the surgeon i am dealing is one of the best and to trust what he says. I also agree because this surgeon told me to finish pain management first before he will do anything. I finally spoke to my nerologist today and he told me is ordering something tht i will spray up my nose for the headaches. i am not sure of the name yet.

Dr. Smith 06-07-2012 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious (Post 886855)
I am just wondering...what kind of Google results might you get if you instead (of yours) used search words like "chiropractic neck pain," "chiropractic low back pain" or "benefits of chiropractic?"

Search them and see. You get a lot sites of chiropractic professional associations and chiropractors -- they are not exactly unbiased either.

The search criteria I suggested, when you include the related searches as I suggested, present both sides in their extremes, and some examinations of both sides. As with most things, there are always at least two sides to every issue (and often/usually more) and truth lies somewhere between.

Misinformation and misconceptions about medications, supplements, advertising, and other questionable therapies and practices (and safety thereof) are often pointed out on this site, and people are always free to examine the information and/or ignore it as they choose.

Doc

Dr. Smith 06-07-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cboncal1972 (Post 886893)
I finally spoke to my nerologist today and he told me is ordering something tht i will spray up my nose for the headaches. i am not sure of the name yet.

Do you have a diagnosis of the type of headaches (cervicogenic, migraine, cluster, etc)? Some nasal sprays for headache are Imitrex/Imigran (sumatriptan), Zomig (zolmitriptan), Butorphanol (Stadol) Migranal (dihydroergotamine). If whatever he prescribed doesn't work, it doesn't mean another might not, so let him know; there are others to try.

Doc

cboncal1972 06-07-2012 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Smith (Post 886928)
Do you have a diagnosis of the type of headaches (cervicogenic, migraine, cluster, etc)? Some nasal sprays for headache are Imitrex/Imigran (sumatriptan), Zomig (zolmitriptan), Butorphanol (Stadol) Migranal (dihydroergotamine). If whatever he prescribed doesn't work, it doesn't mean another might not, so let him know; there are others to try.

Doc

i was on molpax, sumatripiane, amitriptoline, already... amitriptoline worked but i gained 9 punds in two weeks with it. So now we are seeing what else may work for me

Dubious 06-07-2012 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Smith (Post 886918)
Misinformation and misconceptions about medications, supplements, advertising, and other questionable therapies and practices (and safety thereof)
Doc

I wasn't talking about allopathic medicine...I was refering to chiropractic.

Just mess'in with ya. I think they are all a bunch of unscientific cultist that grow hair on their palms, chase their pets around the house with electric cattle prods and should be taken out to the shed...

cboncal1972 06-08-2012 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubious (Post 886944)
I wasn't talking about allopathic medicine...I was refering to chiropractic.

Just mess'in with ya. I think they are all a bunch of unscientific cultist that grow hair on their palms, chase their pets around the house with electric cattle prods and should be taken out to the shed...

could you tell me about Migranal.. that is the med that was prescribed for me...

cboncal1972 06-08-2012 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginnie (Post 886671)
Did anything in particular set your back issues off like this? Were you in some kind of accident? I am going to look up some of the things on your MRI.
Just a quick review, I know for sure, that when there is a tear like at C6-7, and herniation, that is not something to take lightly. You don't have a reversal of the spine, rather straightening of the spine due to spasms. I know how bad that hurts too. Any thing thats compressing the spinal canal causes pain. I will look up particulars.
Leesa is the best to my knowledge on this site for reading these MRI's. I have not seen her on line lately, but if she sees this I bet she will respond.
What is a concern to me, is that your problems are over a broad area, or in many locations.
Has the doctor stated exactly what he wants to do???
Because most of your damage is posterior, that is most likely why he wants to approach from in back or posterior. My damage, was reversal of the spine, herniated more from the front.
You are very young to have this kind of trouble, and I am sorry this happened. I know that medicine has come a long way, and that real help can be had for most of our conditions. I will look up each thing to get a better understanding. I know the language, but I would like to look things up, line by line, and get the whole picture.
Are you seeing a neuro surgeon? Have you thought about another opinion?
I will start now, and do a little tonight, and tap back at you in the morning. I ran off a copy of the report to have it in front of me line by line.
Most of my damage was all in the upper part of the neck, C1- down to T1-2-3, which is left over problems. Definate cause of problems for me was due to my work.
Has your doctor mentioned anything like degenerative joint disease, or degenerative disk disease? Please don't take offence for me asking you. I don't want to scare you for sure. I know it is scarry enough to face these things. Is your husband giving you a hand lately, and being supportive?. We do need friends when we get in trouble medically.
This site, helped me get through all I had to do. I will try to do the same for you. I run back here all the time for help. I be here tomorrow.
I hope you get some good rest tonight. and that your pain is not overwhelming. off to look up a bit. ginnie:hug:

did you find out anything more about my mri..do you think it would be a multifusion in my neck..and with fusion do you lose alot of mobility


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