[Annie1023]

I am a 63 year old,, while working I fell backwards with alot of force, injured my neck,,this happened 10/23/12. I was taken off work and ordered 6 physical therapy sessions in 2 weeks and in my opinion the PT made my neck worse.
I was the ordered to have a Cervical Mri. The work comp Dr totally confused me and the next step is to see a Neuro Surgeon. Waiting for a referral. I have pain with activity and walking up and down stairs seems to really bring the pain on. In the evening I seem to have pain no matter what I did during the day. The work comp Dr said that I probably had most of the finding on the Mri before the fall....?????? I asked him where the pain was coming from and he didnt answer.
This is the first MRI I have had in my life,,,I am very concerned,,

Impression
1) C2-3 There is a 3mm disc bulge at this level with a high-intensity zone centrally.This is mildly effacing the ventral CSF space w/o central canal or neural foraminal stenosis.
2)C3-4 There is a 2mm disc osteophyte complex with a superimposed broad based 1mm central disc protrusion.There is effacement of the ventral CSF space.There is mild spinal canal stenosis.This disc osteophyte complex contains an eccentric component extending into the left intraforaminal region. There is mild to moderate left sided neural foraminal stenosis w/o right foraminal stenosis.
3)C4-5 There is a 3mm disc osteophyte complex with a high-intensity zone centrally.This is effacing the ventral CSF space and contacting the anterior margin of the spinal cord.There is moderate to severe spinal stenosis w/o neural stenosis.
4) C5-6 There is a 2mm disc osteophyte complex with a superimposed broad-based 4mm disc protrusion situated within the left lateral recess and intraforaminal region. There is moderate to severe spinal canal stenosis, moderate to severe left lateral recess narrowing, and moderate to severe left sided neural foraminal stenosis. There is also right sided unconvertebral hypertrophy with mild to moderate right sided neural foraminal stenosis.
5) C6-7 There is a 2mm disc osteophyte complex with slight effacement of ventral CSF space and mild to moderate spinal canal stenosis. There is bilateral unconvertebral enlargement and facet disease causing mild to moderate bilateral neural foraminal stenosing.

***I have tried to research the above,,it just doesnt make sense to me. The work comp Dr tried to say that most of this is age related****
It seems like alot to me. For the last 27 years I have been driving an 18 wheeler and I really dont want to think that I need to retire. Could someone tell me if all of the above is normal for a 63 year old woman. I have actually been very healthy and I have taken excellent care of myself ****
I appreciate any help or comments,,,,,Annie

[Leesa]

I'll try to help, but we'll see.

C2-3 There is a 3mm disc bulge and this wipes out the central spinal fluid space without central canal or neural foraminal stenosis. The foramen is the hole that the nerves pass thru to get to the spinal cord.

C3-4 There is a 2mm disc bone spur with a broad based 1mm disc herniation. The central spinal fluid space is wiped out and there is mild spinal canal stenosis. (stenosis is narrowing of the spinal canal) The disc bone spur contains a component extending into the left intraforaminal region. (see above) . There is mild to moderate left neural foraminal stenosis (see above).

C5-6 There is a 2mm bone spur with a 4mm disc herniation on the left lateral recess and intraforaminal region. There is moderate to SEVERE spinal canal stenosis, and moderate to SEVERE lateral recess narrowing, and moderate to SEVERE left sided neural foraminal stenosis. There is also right sided unconvertebral hypertrophy (overgrowth of bone) with mild to moderate right sided neural foraminal stenosis.

C6-7 There is a 2mm bone spur with slight effacement (wiping out) of the CSF (central spinal space) and mild to moderate spinal canal stenosis. There is bilateral unconvertebral enlargement and facet disease. (the facets are the "wing-like" structures on each side of the spinal cord. They are made of bone and if you hunch over alot, you can see them) This causes mild to moderate bilateral neural foraminal stenosis.


I'M NO DOCTOR, but you probably did have most of this before the accident. I'm glad you are going to see a Neurosurgeon. That would have been what I would have recommended. If at ALL possible, stay away from surgery as long as you can!!! Surgery only begets more surgery! Surgery does NOT help pain. Surgery only is for mechanical problems. Usually after surgery, you're left with the same pain or worse. And with surgery, you have to worry about the "Domino effect." That is where the levels above and below the surgery site fail, because they have to take on more of the load. So somewhere down the line, after surgery you're going to need MORE surgery. It's a vicious cycle.

Before the internet came into being, and before I could do any research (which I've done LOADS of now) I had 2 OPEN surgeries. They didn't have the minimally invasive surgeries then. The first surgery was a total failure. Then after awhile, the level above failed, so I had to have a 2nd surgery. That surgery was a failure too! Now my spine is a complete mess -- and I'm now deemed "INOPERABLE."

So do your homework, and research IF they decide they want to do surgery. Surgery should be a LAST RESORT after all CONSERVATIVE methods have been tried. Pain management should be tried too, as well as physical therapy for a reasonable time. In fact, people who have had physical therapy have had the same results as people who have had surgery! So be careful.

God bless and please take care. Hugs, Lee

[gatorhead]

I see it two ways! There are a lot of degenerative findings that do come with age. There are bone growths that come with time, so it could not have happened overnight or within a few weeks to that degree of severity.

However the C5-6 Disc seems to be a major problem here (there are other's as well) and that most certainly could have been the product of a fall, as any of them could have been.

The work comp doctor works and gets paid by work comp. His best interests are their best interests. You have the right to seek your own physician if you do not like or agree with his assessment. Like I said it can be spun both ways!

Best of luck!

[Annie1023]

Originally Posted by Leesa

I'll try to help, but we'll see.

C2-3 There is a 3mm disc bulge and this wipes out the central spinal fluid space without central canal or neural foraminal stenosis. The foramen is the hole that the nerves pass thru to get to the spinal cord.

C3-4 There is a 2mm disc bone spur with a broad based 1mm disc herniation. The central spinal fluid space is wiped out and there is mild spinal canal stenosis. (stenosis is narrowing of the spinal canal) The disc bone spur contains a component extending into the left intraforaminal region. (see above) . There is mild to moderate left neural foraminal stenosis (see above).

C5-6 There is a 2mm bone spur with a 4mm disc herniation on the left lateral recess and intraforaminal region. There is moderate to SEVERE spinal canal stenosis, and moderate to SEVERE lateral recess narrowing, and moderate to SEVERE left sided neural foraminal stenosis. There is also right sided unconvertebral hypertrophy (overgrowth of bone) with mild to moderate right sided neural foraminal stenosis.

C6-7 There is a 2mm bone spur with slight effacement (wiping out) of the CSF (central spinal space) and mild to moderate spinal canal stenosis. There is bilateral unconvertebral enlargement and facet disease. (the facets are the "wing-like" structures on each side of the spinal cord. They are made of bone and if you hunch over alot, you can see them) This causes mild to moderate bilateral neural foraminal stenosis.


I'M NO DOCTOR, but you probably did have most of this before the accident. I'm glad you are going to see a Neurosurgeon. That would have been what I would have recommended. If at ALL possible, stay away from surgery as long as you can!!! Surgery only begets more surgery! Surgery does NOT help pain. Surgery only is for mechanical problems. Usually after surgery, you're left with the same pain or worse. And with surgery, you have to worry about the "Domino effect." That is where the levels above and below the surgery site fail, because they have to take on more of the load. So somewhere down the line, after surgery you're going to need MORE surgery. It's a vicious cycle.

Before the internet came into being, and before I could do any research (which I've done LOADS of now) I had 2 OPEN surgeries. They didn't have the minimally invasive surgeries then. The first surgery was a total failure. Then after awhile, the level above failed, so I had to have a 2nd surgery. That surgery was a failure too! Now my spine is a complete mess -- and I'm now deemed "INOPERABLE."

So do your homework, and research IF they decide they want to do surgery. Surgery should be a LAST RESORT after all CONSERVATIVE methods have been tried. Pain management should be tried too, as well as physical therapy for a reasonable time. In fact, people who have had physical therapy have had the same results as people who have had surgery! So be careful.

God bless and please take care. Hugs, Lee

Leesa,,,Thanks so much, I feel I am gaining a little more knowledge each day,
May God bless you,,Annie

[Annie1023]

Originally Posted by gatorhead

I see it two ways! There are a lot of degenerative findings that do come with age. There are bone growths that come with time, so it could not have happened overnight or within a few weeks to that degree of severity.

However the C5-6 Disc seems to be a major problem here (there are other's as well) and that most certainly could have been the product of a fall, as any of them could have been.

The work comp doctor works and gets paid by work comp. His best interests are their best interests. You have the right to seek your own physician if you do not like or agree with his assessment. Like I said it can be spun both ways!

Best of luck!

Hi Gatorhead,,,Thanks for your information. My goal is to find my own Doctor.The workmans comp Doc acted like my MRI had no serious findings.His attitude was like it is customery for me to see a Neuro-Surgeon and for my age I am in pretty good shape. I kept reading the MRI and thinking to myself that it seems alot more serious than the Dr was acting like. I am happy to find this website,,,Thanks again for your reply. Annie

[Annie1023]

Originally Posted by Leesa

I'll try to help, but we'll see.

C2-3 There is a 3mm disc bulge and this wipes out the central spinal fluid space without central canal or neural foraminal stenosis. The foramen is the hole that the nerves pass thru to get to the spinal cord.

C3-4 There is a 2mm disc bone spur with a broad based 1mm disc herniation. The central spinal fluid space is wiped out and there is mild spinal canal stenosis. (stenosis is narrowing of the spinal canal) The disc bone spur contains a component extending into the left intraforaminal region. (see above) . There is mild to moderate left neural foraminal stenosis (see above).

C5-6 There is a 2mm bone spur with a 4mm disc herniation on the left lateral recess and intraforaminal region. There is moderate to SEVERE spinal canal stenosis, and moderate to SEVERE lateral recess narrowing, and moderate to SEVERE left sided neural foraminal stenosis. There is also right sided unconvertebral hypertrophy (overgrowth of bone) with mild to moderate right sided neural foraminal stenosis.

C6-7 There is a 2mm bone spur with slight effacement (wiping out) of the CSF (central spinal space) and mild to moderate spinal canal stenosis. There is bilateral unconvertebral enlargement and facet disease. (the facets are the "wing-like" structures on each side of the spinal cord. They are made of bone and if you hunch over alot, you can see them) This causes mild to moderate bilateral neural foraminal stenosis.


I'M NO DOCTOR, but you probably did have most of this before the accident. I'm glad you are going to see a Neurosurgeon. That would have been what I would have recommended. If at ALL possible, stay away from surgery as long as you can!!! Surgery only begets more surgery! Surgery does NOT help pain. Surgery only is for mechanical problems. Usually after surgery, you're left with the same pain or worse. And with surgery, you have to worry about the "Domino effect." That is where the levels above and below the surgery site fail, because they have to take on more of the load. So somewhere down the line, after surgery you're going to need MORE surgery. It's a vicious cycle.

Before the internet came into being, and before I could do any research (which I've done LOADS of now) I had 2 OPEN surgeries. They didn't have the minimally invasive surgeries then. The first surgery was a total failure. Then after awhile, the level above failed, so I had to have a 2nd surgery. That surgery was a failure too! Now my spine is a complete mess -- and I'm now deemed "INOPERABLE."

So do your homework, and research IF they decide they want to do surgery. Surgery should be a LAST RESORT after all CONSERVATIVE methods have been tried. Pain management should be tried too, as well as physical therapy for a reasonable time. In fact, people who have had physical therapy have had the same results as people who have had surgery! So be careful.

God bless and please take care. Hugs, Lee

Leesa,,I feel silly asking this but,,,,,like I mentioned this is my 1st MRI,,the terminology is basically new to me and I am curious if the findings on my MRI are somewhat normal for someone my age ???? I am 5ft 3inches 140 lbs. I have always been active,,I have been driving an 18 wheeler by myself for 27 years. I know that you are not a Dr. but I can tell that you have alot of knowledge in this area. Bless you....Annie

[gatorhead]

I know you addressed Leesa, but I showed up and seen it hasn't yet been seen by her and I can take a crack at what you are asking.


As we age the spine, and body has normal wear and tear, just like the parts on your truck. Most of the time in older people they begin to feel the effects of this and it is known as arthritis. There are different forms of arthritis, but yours with the bone spurring seems to be the run of the mill osteoarthritis, or wear and tear arthritis. This is what the doctor is referring too. He would expect to see that. Also DDD or disc degeneration disease is common as your age progresses. Basically it is the process of your disc either dehydrating or already being dehydrated. Again something you would expect to see.

Disc bulging is a term loosely defined in the medical field. A bulge is different than a herniation, or prolapsed disc, at least medically defined it should be. That doesn't mean that it does not cause pain as it is in the spacing of the other things and possibly in contact with things that would cause pain. These are also common findings among all people of all ages.

Now as I noted earlier in your particular case there are indeed at least one serious findings. I have to go on memory as I type this I cant refer back to the post, but I believe it was C5-6 that was plain NASTY! That is what you would expect to see as a result of the trauma. I believe there was another one in there that caused involvement too, but the one was definitely a looker!

Now and I am neither a doctor, nor a lawyer, but from experience I can tell you that WC is going to say this is not a WC injury that it is age related and that you had a bad neck to begin with, because arthritis doesn't set up shop over night! Plus they had THEIR doctor confirm it. A normal doctor would also have to refer you out since it did show something with at least one level of neurological involvement.

I would suggest that for the time being you jump through their hoops. If they stop or slow progress in your medical treatment you should not expect them to do any better and hope that they come around and see it your way, even in the best of cases they never do, you are now the enemy to them. I would ask around about a good WC Attorney as you are going to need one.

[Leesa]

Hi Annie ~ It's very possible that the accident did cause the problem at C5-6. Like Gatorhead said, they're going to argue that point tho, and say that it is age related and/or you probably had it before. So it would behoove you to get a GOOD Worker's Comp attorney to work with you on this and I'm absolutely sure you're going to need one.

It's disgusting what they put you thru on these cases. They make people miserable, and some have even lost their homes waiting for payment from Workers' Comp! It's just ridiculous.

I wish you the very best Annie. You do have a POTENTIAL surgical issue there, although I hope and pray that you can avoid that at all costs! I hope therapy can take care of that. Please keep us posted as to what happens, ok? God bless and please take care. Hugs, Lee

[Annie1023]

Originally Posted by gatorhead

I know you addressed Leesa, but I showed up and seen it hasn't yet been seen by her and I can take a crack at what you are asking.


As we age the spine, and body has normal wear and tear, just like the parts on your truck. Most of the time in older people they begin to feel the effects of this and it is known as arthritis. There are different forms of arthritis, but yours with the bone spurring seems to be the run of the mill osteoarthritis, or wear and tear arthritis. This is what the doctor is referring too. He would expect to see that. Also DDD or disc degeneration disease is common as your age progresses. Basically it is the process of your disc either dehydrating or already being dehydrated. Again something you would expect to see.

Disc bulging is a term loosely defined in the medical field. A bulge is different than a herniation, or prolapsed disc, at least medically defined it should be. That doesn't mean that it does not cause pain as it is in the spacing of the other things and possibly in contact with things that would cause pain. These are also common findings among all people of all ages.

Now as I noted earlier in your particular case there are indeed at least one serious findings. I have to go on memory as I type this I cant refer back to the post, but I believe it was C5-6 that was plain NASTY! That is what you would expect to see as a result of the trauma. I believe there was another one in there that caused involvement too, but the one was definitely a looker!

Now and I am neither a doctor, nor a lawyer, but from experience I can tell you that WC is going to say this is not a WC injury that it is age related and that you had a bad neck to begin with, because arthritis doesn't set up shop over night! Plus they had THEIR doctor confirm it. A normal doctor would also have to refer you out since it did show something with at least one level of neurological involvement.

I would suggest that for the time being you jump through their hoops. If they stop or slow progress in your medical treatment you should not expect them to do any better and hope that they come around and see it your way, even in the best of cases they never do, you are now the enemy to them. I would ask around about a good WC Attorney as you are going to need one.

Gatorhead,,,Thank you,,,,between you and Leesa,,I feel like things are finally starting to come together. I am so happy that I found this forum. Have a great day !!!

[Annie1023]

I am finally going to see the Neuro Surgeon. I am anxious and and a little scared. Leesa and Gatorhead to you have any pointers ?? I am new to this and I hope my Mri is attached to this update msg.
My appointment will be 3 months from the time of my fall at work. Leesa your 1st msg said try to put off surgery for as long as I can.I am afraid of neck surgery ,,so if the the Neuro says that it is a must I guess I will insist on a 2nd opinion..???? My pain is wearing me down,,if I do too much,,which is still not very much I pay the price...
I am so happy that I have found this forum. It helps to read everyones msgs and concerns. God Bless you all,,,,Annie







seen it hasn't yet been seen by her and I can take a crack at what you are asking.


As we age the spine, and body has normal wear and tear, just like the parts on your truck. Most of the time in older people they begin to feel the effects of this and it is known as arthritis. There are different forms of arthritis, but yours with the bone spurring seems to be the run of the mill osteoarthritis, or wear and tear arthritis. This is what the doctor is referring too. He would expect to see that. Also DDD or disc degeneration disease is common as your age progresses. Basically it is the process of your disc either dehydrating or already being dehydrated. Again something you would expect to see.

Disc bulging is a term loosely defined in the medical field. A bulge is different than a herniation, or prolapsed disc, at least medically defined it should be. That doesn't mean that it does not cause pain as it is in the spacing of the other things and possibly in contact with things that would cause pain. These are also common findings among all people of all ages.

Now as I noted earlier in your particular case there are indeed at least one serious findings. I have to go on memory as I type this I cant refer back to the post, but I believe it was C5-6 that was plain NASTY! That is what you would expect to see as a result of the trauma. I believe there was another one in there that caused involvement too, but the one was definitely a looker!

Now and I am neither a doctor, nor a lawyer, but from experience I can tell you that WC is going to say this is not a WC injury that it is age related and that you had a bad neck to begin with, because arthritis doesn't set up shop over night! Plus they had THEIR doctor confirm it. A normal doctor would also have to refer you out since it did show something with at least one level of neurological involvement.

I would suggest that for the time being you jump through their hoops. If they stop or slow progress in your medical treatment you should not expect them to do any better and hope that they come around and see it your way, even in the best of cases they never do, you are now the enemy to them. I would ask around about a good WC Attorney as you are going to need one.[/QUOTE]