[ohaya]

Hi,

This may be slightly off-topic, but hope that someone here might provide some feedback.

I was diagnosed with spinal stenosis at L4 awhile ago, and had a minimally-invasive laminectomy in 2010. Before the surgery, both my legs would go numb and hurt to the point that I almost couldn't feel them, and I got immediate relief from that surgery. However, during recovery from that surgery, when I lay down (esp. on one specific couch that we have), I could occasionally feel a kind of "tugging" in my left lower back, a couple of inches above the hip area.

I had some remaining problems with numbness/tightness in my legs below the knees and in the feet/ankles (I have a thread about this in the peripheral neuropathy forum here), and some pain in a specific area in my left buttock, so the same neurosurgeon did an "L4 re-exploration" earlier this year (April).

Since then, I'm occasionally feeling some "aching" in the same area of my left lower back. It's not sharp pain, but more like an ache, in a very small area. The original neurosurgeon said that looking at both my lumbar MRIs and the pelvic MRI, he doesn't think that this ache/pain is from the spine.

Anyway, almost all of the MRIs that I've had, including a pelvic MRI earlier this year, showed a large (about 3 in. x 3 in.) renal cyst on my left kidney, so recently with that back pain in my left lower back, I went to see a urologist, and I asked him if it was possible that the cyst could be causing the left lower back pain. He said it was unlikely, but that I could see an interventional radiologist about a possible aspiration, where they drain the cyst.

I've been researching that, and understand that getting an aspiration done, even if it provided relief, the cyst could re-fill after some indefinite time, but that the aspiration would be diagnostic, i.e., tell me if the cyst was causing the back pain.

The reason for this post is that I've been googling around, and I've found some, but very little, and oftentimes, vague, information about whether such renal cysts can cause back pain, so I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with having back pain from a renal cyst, and also had an aspiration and what the results were?

Thanks,
Jim

[fastcarbon]

Originally Posted by ohaya

Hi,

This may be slightly off-topic, but hope that someone here might provide some feedback.

I was diagnosed with spinal stenosis at L4 awhile ago, and had a minimally-invasive laminectomy in 2010. Before the surgery, both my legs would go numb and hurt to the point that I almost couldn't feel them, and I got immediate relief from that surgery. However, during recovery from that surgery, when I lay down (esp. on one specific couch that we have), I could occasionally feel a kind of "tugging" in my left lower back, a couple of inches above the hip area.

I had some remaining problems with numbness/tightness in my legs below the knees and in the feet/ankles (I have a thread about this in the peripheral neuropathy forum here), and some pain in a specific area in my left buttock, so the same neurosurgeon did an "L4 re-exploration" earlier this year (April).

Since then, I'm occasionally feeling some "aching" in the same area of my left lower back. It's not sharp pain, but more like an ache, in a very small area. The original neurosurgeon said that looking at both my lumbar MRIs and the pelvic MRI, he doesn't think that this ache/pain is from the spine.

Anyway, almost all of the MRIs that I've had, including a pelvic MRI earlier this year, showed a large (about 3 in. x 3 in.) renal cyst on my left kidney, so recently with that back pain in my left lower back, I went to see a urologist, and I asked him if it was possible that the cyst could be causing the left lower back pain. He said it was unlikely, but that I could see an interventional radiologist about a possible aspiration, where they drain the cyst.

I've been researching that, and understand that getting an aspiration done, even if it provided relief, the cyst could re-fill after some indefinite time, but that the aspiration would be diagnostic, i.e., tell me if the cyst was causing the back pain.

The reason for this post is that I've been googling around, and I've found some, but very little, and oftentimes, vague, information about whether such renal cysts can cause back pain, so I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with having back pain from a renal cyst, and also had an aspiration and what the results were?

Thanks,
Jim

Jim: I have over the last 10 years had back pain from multiple cycts which were removed in a laporoscopic ablation process which leaves 3 small scars about a half inch long and the cyst is gone. Do not go to an Interventional Radiologist as I had cyst aspiration by them and they only grow back. It is old technology. Find a Urologist who does the laporoscopic ablation! He or she will do a CT scan after a thorough discussion with you to establish the pain is really from the kidney. Then ablation. Good Luck. fastcarbon

[ohaya]

Originally Posted by fastcarbon

Jim: I have over the last 10 years had back pain from multiple cycts which were removed in a laporoscopic ablation process which leaves 3 small scars about a half inch long and the cyst is gone. Do not go to an Interventional Radiologist as I had cyst aspiration by them and they only grow back. It is old technology. Find a Urologist who does the laporoscopic ablation! He or she will do a CT scan after a thorough discussion with you to establish the pain is really from the kidney. Then ablation. Good Luck. fastcarbon

fastcarbon,

Thanks a lot for your post and mentioning laporoscopic ablation!

Not doubting what you said, but how definitively can they tie the back pain to the cyst?

How recently did you have this done? Was it done using robotics? After it was done, was your back pain gone?

Thanks again. It's really encouraging.

Jim

[Dr. Smith]

Originally Posted by ohaya

Since then, I'm occasionally feeling some "aching" in the same area of my left lower back. It's not sharp pain, but more like an ache, in a very small area.

Hi Jim,

How occasionally, and of what duration? I've gotten similar pains (but sharper) for a few days to a few weeks, a few times in my life, and they've always gone away. In my case, I think it was likely a stone working its way through/out. They can definitely be painful.

Doc

[ohaya]

Originally Posted by Dr. Smith

Hi Jim,

How occasionally, and of what duration? I've gotten similar pains (but sharper) for a few days to a few weeks, a few times in my life, and they've always gone away. In my case, I think it was likely a stone working its way through/out. They can definitely be painful.

Doc

Hi,

I first noticed this pain after my 2nd spine surgery, in April of this year (2012).

It seems to happen most often when I lie down and sit.

Frequency is probably every day. Duration is that, once I feel it, I'll feel it for awhile, maybe a couple of hours, then it's gone until it comes back again.

Sometimes, I think/feel that it was positional, but I haven't been able to pinpoint that.

As I said, it's definitely not a "sharp" pain. It's more like someone is pushing their fist into that area of my lower left back.

I know that this description is somewhat vague ...

I finally got an appointment with the interventional radiologist for today for a consultation. I made that just about the time that fastcarbon posted about laparoscopic ablation, so I figured I'd keep this appointment, just to see what they say, but if I decide to pursue this, I'll probably go see a urologist that does the ablation procedure eventually.

Thanks,
Jim

[ohaya]

Hi,

Sorry it's been awhile, but wanted to post some still incomplete followup info.

I did see the interventional radiologist awhile ago, but he hadn't had experience aspiring renal cysts, so I didn't feel comfortable with getting it done.

I had a subsequent appointment with a different urologist in my area who does laparoscopic surgery, and he suggested that I get the aspiration done. He said the interventional radiologists at the hospital that he was at had a lot of experience with that, and gave me some names.

I continued to research, and I found an article on the UK Kidney association, by a patient who had had an aspiration, and he reported that the procedure was really painful, esp. the anesthesization (sorry, I've looked for the article, but can't find it now), so I kind of chickened out...

I finally got up the nerve in mid-October, and had a consultation with one of the radiologists that the urologist recommended, and we spent quite a bit of time discussing both the procedure and his experience with aspiring renal cysts, and he assured me that it was nothing like that UK article, so I went ahead and scheduled and had it done at the end of October (2013).

They did the aspiration using CT guidance, and I was in what they call "twilight"... I was awake, but didn't feel any pain throughout the procedure, except for the slight pain from the initial shots.

They said that they removed ~220 cc of fluid from one large, and several smaller cysts, and they said they had removed all of the fluid from those cysts at the time.

After the aspiration, the lower left back pain was gone... for about 1.5 - 2 weeks. After about 2 weeks, I started feeling the same "pulling" feeling in that area, and then it started hurting more as time passed. At this point, in mid-November 2013, it's about as painful as before the aspiration, but not as constant as it was before the aspiration.

So, I went to see the urologist again this week, and discussed my situation. During the appointment, I asked him if it was possible that just the remnants of the anesthesization might have stopped the back pain for that 1.5 - 2 weeks, and he said that he didn't think so, and he had me get an ultrasound done to see if the cyst(s) had re-filled.

The ultrasound found that the cyst was now ~2 cm again (it was like 5-7cm before the aspiration), so it seems like between the end of October to mid-November, it's started to re-fill.

I got a call from the urologist's office tis week, and I now have another upcoming appointment with him next week, to discuss how to move forward.

I'm not sure what he's going to say, and I guess that in the back of my brain, I still have a hard time believing that the cyst(s) would be causing the back pain, but I think that at this point, if he suggests or recommends the laparoscopic ablation, I will go ahead with that.

I'll post back if I do do that, and how it turns out with respect to the lower left back pain.

Jim

[Hopeless]

Dear Ohaya,

It is amazing what one can learn from reading posts on NT. I have suffered with back pain of various degress for many years. MRI showed lumbar disc problems at one point in time. Currently have thoracic disc problems.

Recently had a bad bout of back pain for about 2 months of which 2 weeks were crippling and severe pain. No idea why. Since my 2 month episode, my back pain is back to its everyday level.

I accidentally discovered by reading my medical records that I have a cyst on top of one of my kidneys. Had no idea. No one ever mentioned it to me. Guess they thought it was of no concern.

Having read your post, I am wondering if there is any relationship between my back pain and my renal cyst.

I guess I will inquire at my next appointment. If I learn anything that may be of any value to you, I will let you know. Until then, thanks for your posts. I would have never considered any connection since no one bothered to mention the cyst to me. I just assume it is as innocuous as if it does not even exist.

[ohaya]

Originally Posted by Hopeless

Dear Ohaya,

It is amazing what one can learn from reading posts on NT. I have suffered with back pain of various degress for many years. MRI showed lumbar disc problems at one point in time. Currently have thoracic disc problems.

Recently had a bad bout of back pain for about 2 months of which 2 weeks were crippling and severe pain. No idea why. Since my 2 month episode, my back pain is back to its everyday level.

I accidentally discovered by reading my medical records that I have a cyst on top of one of my kidneys. Had no idea. No one ever mentioned it to me. Guess they thought it was of no concern.

Having read your post, I am wondering if there is any relationship between my back pain and my renal cyst.

I guess I will inquire at my next appointment. If I learn anything that may be of any value to you, I will let you know. Until then, thanks for your posts. I would have never considered any connection since no one bothered to mention the cyst to me. I just assume it is as innocuous as if it does not even exist.

Hi,

Going back through my MRI reports, mostly lumbar spine ones, every report has mentioned the renal cysts.

I noticed that in almost all the reports, they say that these are "usually" asymptomatic, and that's been the same thing every doctor (except for the IR doctor and my current urologist) has told me when I asked.

As I said, I'm still doubtful, but I've come to the conclusion that, unfortunately, the only way that I'll know for sure (and possibly the only way to get some relief from the lower left back pain) is going to be to get the ablation.

Good luck with your situation!!

[Hopeless]

Originally Posted by ohaya

Hi,

Going back through my MRI reports, mostly lumbar spine ones, every report has mentioned the renal cysts.

I noticed that in almost all the reports, they say that these are "usually" asymptomatic, and that's been the same thing every doctor (except for the IR doctor and my current urologist) has told me when I asked.

As I said, I'm still doubtful, but I've come to the conclusion that, unfortunately, the only way that I'll know for sure (and possibly the only way to get some relief from the lower left back pain) is going to be to get the ablation.

Good luck with your situation!!

I am fortunate in that my back pain usually stays at a tolerable level. It does impede my abilities and functions and creates limitations for me but the "pain" or ache usually stays around a 4 or 5. I guess ignorance really is bliss in some cases as I would never have known about my renal cyst if I had not reviewed my medical records myself. I will ask about it but am not really concerned. There may be no correlation and it may be asymptomatic as you mentioned.

YOURS, however, seems to NEED investigation. Since your symptoms changed after the procedure and then returned when the cyst began filling again with fluid, I too would want to know. I hope that you find the defnitive source of your back pain and can get the proper resolution to it.

Wishing you the best. Thanks for your response. Keep us posted.

PS. Mine may just be poor muscles that ache if they have to perform even the slightest task, like sitting.