Spinal Disorders & Back Pain For discussion of all spinal cord injuries, spinal issues, back-related pain or problems.


advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-21-2018, 02:35 PM #1
MAT52 MAT52 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 529
8 yr Member
MAT52 MAT52 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 529
8 yr Member
Default “Significant Degenerative Disc Disease”

Hi there. I usually post on the peripheral neuropathy forum but this time I have a few questions about recent MRIs of sacral lumbar spine and cervical spine - hoping someone can tell me what course of action I should consider taking, if any.

I found out the other day that I have a herniated disc in the L5/S1 which is touching my left sacral nerve and causing some narrowing. This was no surprise to me and a relief to my physiotherapist who was concerned I might have Cauda Equina Syndrome.

What I have been more surprised by is that, when I collected print outs from my GP (I’m in Scotland, UK) of these scan reports to take to a neuro physio - I discovered a report from my cervical MRI. I have Sjögren’s Syndrome and Hashimoto’s so have been seeing neurologists for a few years. The first MRI was done 3 and half years ago and reported as some possible root involvement in the C5.

I’m a 55 year old woman with a rheumatic disease and widespread small fibre neuropathy. When I tried to report that both arms were full of parasthesia and becoming increasingly weak and lifeless during periods of stillness/ rest my neurologist just laughed at me and said I was overthinking. She wrote in her letter about me that she was concerned I have “some heightened health awareness”. Yes I do because I’m struggling to turn in bed now because my left arm feels so weak. She promised to check out MRIs from 2016 even though the numb, weak my tingly hands and arms only started to get bad in 2017. She said she couldn’t find anything to explain my symptoms.

This is the report of my recent cervical MRI and I’d be grateful if anyone could tell me if I’m right to feel vindicated and rather cross with the neurologist and whether of not this 3 year progression from possible root involvement to significant ddd is normal?

Finally it would be really helpful to know if what is reported explains some of the twitches and weakness in my left arm - even though my right arm is almost as bad. And if this correlated would this respond enough to neuro physio or would it warrant discussion with a neuro surgeon about possible surgical intervention?
Thanks very much,
Mat

“MRI Spine cervical

Normal vertical body height and alignment

C3/4: no significant abnormality

C4/5: no significant abnormality

C5/6: there is broad based moderately large left paracentral and left foraminal disc extrusion projecting into the left exit foramen and causing significant narrowing. The right exit foramen is patent

C6/7: Broad based posterior central disc protrusion with an annular tear which is abutting and slightly flattening the cord in the anterior aspect but there is no obvious foraminal stenosis on either side.

C7/T1: No significant abnormality.

The cord returns normal signal. Normal cranocervical junction.”

Opinion: Significant degenerative disc disease involving C5/6 and C6/7. Please correlate clinically
__________________
If you get lemons, make lemonade

Sjögren’s, Hashimoto’s and Systemic Sclerosis with Raynaud’s, Erythromelagia and small fibre polyneuropathy, GI problems top to tail, degenerative disc disease and possible additional autoimmune diseases
MAT52 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote

advertisement
Old 07-21-2018, 03:39 PM #2
Jomar's Avatar
Jomar Jomar is offline
Co-Administrator
Community Support Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 27,673
15 yr Member
Jomar Jomar is offline
Co-Administrator
Community Support Team
Jomar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 27,673
15 yr Member
Default

I would ask for some phys therapy & assessment.
Often MDs don't do a hands on or know everything about the body.
A good PT will do hands on evaluation to better tell if neck or disk is the problem..

If you do /did repetitive work/ desk job, have forward head /shoulders - those can cause arm issues also, by closing the area where nerves & blood flow pas in the neck/chest junction. See our Thoracic outlet syndrome (TOS) forum for more info on that..
__________________
Search NT -
.
Jomar is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Christi3 (06-09-2019)
Old 07-21-2018, 04:18 PM #3
MAT52 MAT52 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 529
8 yr Member
MAT52 MAT52 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 529
8 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo*mar View Post
I would ask for some phys therapy & assessment.
Often MDs don't do a hands on or know everything about the body.
A good PT will do hands on evaluation to better tell if neck or disk is the problem..

If you do /did repetitive work/ desk job, have forward head /shoulders - those can cause arm issues also, by closing the area where nerves & blood flow pas in the neck/chest junction. See our Thoracic outlet syndrome (TOS) forum for more info on that..
Thanks so much. I do have a sedentary job but I try to break often to move about. I don’t think I have a forward posture but I do have mild ataxia relating to small fibre neuropathy loss of sensation. The odd thing is that my hands and arms are okay when engaged but when resting this awful leaden feeling kicks in with very severe pins and needles.

This problem is most pronounced when I’m in bed when my arms become dead/ numb from hands up. And yet my sleep position isn’t unusual? By morning I can’t use my left hand to prop myself to get out of bed or hold things or even turn over. Does this seem to correlate with what the radiologist describes here would you know?

My thoracic spine seems to be pretty normal although most of it wasn’t imaged. I have no pain there at all. I will defintely be hoping to get answers from the neuro PT when I see her on the 1st of August but meanwhile I’m wondering if this is related to my autoimmune condition or seems quite a common symptom of this severe disc degeneration?
__________________
If you get lemons, make lemonade

Sjögren’s, Hashimoto’s and Systemic Sclerosis with Raynaud’s, Erythromelagia and small fibre polyneuropathy, GI problems top to tail, degenerative disc disease and possible additional autoimmune diseases
MAT52 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 06:38 AM #4
glenntaj glenntaj is offline
Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,855
15 yr Member
glenntaj glenntaj is offline
Magnate
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,855
15 yr Member
Default Arthritis and disc problems of the cervical and lumbar spine--

--are so common in aging human beings (partly due to our upright weight bearing posture AND our tendency to be seated for long periods at work or driving) that it's hardly surprising that you have some.

The question with these things is always how severe it is and what symptoms it causes. You notices the line in the MRI report "coorelate clinically"; that's because many people with all sorts of neural foraminal narrowing and/or cord compromise on MRI may have no or minimal symptoms, whereas those with not as much imaging evidence may have considerable symptoms. There's a tremendous amount of variation across individuals.

And, the other problem you and me and many others have is that symptoms caused by nerve root or spinal cord problems can be exactly mimicked by symptoms caused by more peripheral issues, such as diabetes or autoimmune attack on nerves, and it may be very hard to tease out just what is contributing to what.

I of course had my full body acute onset small fiber "attack" fifteen years ago that has left some residual damage, but my bigger day to day issues these days seem to come from mutlilevel foraminal compromise in my cervical spine, which I do very extensive physical therapy and exercise for so I can keep out of the surgical suite as long as possible. And I am prone to all sorts of compressive effects from the original nerve problem (and probably from slow regrowth along different pathways than originally), so I also have intermittent problems with the femoral nerves due to a leg length discrepancy that tilts my pelvis and impacts nerves passing through there.

I think you do have evidence of enough cervical compromise, given the symptoms you describe, to need to really see a neural orthopedic specialist. You did have enough discs herniation to contact nerve tissue. A repeat imaging might be in order--disc bulges and herniations can heal, though the extent of healing and symptoms improvement, again, is very variable. Neural compromise in the spine due to overgrowth of the vertebrae bone into the foramen--oestophytic complexes--tend to just grow over time (that's what I have) and may eventually have to be shaved down or removed to make space for nerve roots to function.
glenntaj is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 07:23 AM #5
MAT52 MAT52 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 529
8 yr Member
MAT52 MAT52 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 529
8 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenntaj View Post
--are so common in aging human beings (partly due to our upright weight bearing posture AND our tendency to be seated for long periods at work or driving) that it's hardly surprising that you have some.

The question with these things is always how severe it is and what symptoms it causes. You notices the line in the MRI report "coorelate clinically"; that's because many people with all sorts of neural foraminal narrowing and/or cord compromise on MRI may have no or minimal symptoms, whereas those with not as much imaging evidence may have considerable symptoms. There's a tremendous amount of variation across individuals.

And, the other problem you and me and many others have is that symptoms caused by nerve root or spinal cord problems can be exactly mimicked by symptoms caused by more peripheral issues, such as diabetes or autoimmune attack on nerves, and it may be very hard to tease out just what is contributing to what.

I of course had my full body acute onset small fiber "attack" fifteen years ago that has left some residual damage, but my bigger day to day issues these days seem to come from mutlilevel foraminal compromise in my cervical spine, which I do very extensive physical therapy and exercise for so I can keep out of the surgical suite as long as possible. And I am prone to all sorts of compressive effects from the original nerve problem (and probably from slow regrowth along different pathways than originally), so I also have intermittent problems with the femoral nerves due to a leg length discrepancy that tilts my pelvis and impacts nerves passing through there.

I think you do have evidence of enough cervical compromise, given the symptoms you describe, to need to really see a neural orthopedic specialist. You did have enough discs herniation to contact nerve tissue. A repeat imaging might be in order--disc bulges and herniations can heal, though the extent of healing and symptoms improvement, again, is very variable. Neural compromise in the spine due to overgrowth of the vertebrae bone into the foramen--oestophytic complexes--tend to just grow over time (that's what I have) and may eventually have to be shaved down or removed to make space for nerve roots to function.
Wow such a very helpful response - thank-you. I’m going to be seeing a dedicated neuro PT in 10 days time and if she reads the reports and decides that this warrants me seeing a neuro surgeon to discuss surgical options then hopefully my GP will be able to organise this to happen reasonably soon.

I completely see and relate to what you are explaining about one person’s reaction to pain compared to another’s. However, as I pointed out in my letter of complaint to the nasty neurologist, my responses to symptoms have always been commensurate to what has then been proven. I have just always had a lot wrong with me from infancy onwards.

Recently I saw an ENT consultant about possible vestibular disorder such as Menieres or other rarer conditions such as Cogan’s. He listened to my very flatly told account and I could tell he decided he liked me and I was going to be good for his students. So he sent me off for a full vestibular work out but nothing showed up because, as I’d said to him, my problems seem to relate to my central and peripheral nervous systems and dryness and autonomic dysfunction of Sjögren’s rather than my vestibular system.

But he then wrote to me saying that he had reformatted the “normal sinus CT his colleague had commissioned and discovered a “high rising venous bulb on my left jugular which is a structural abnormality and would explain my pulsatile tinnitus and possibly my vertigo attacks too. Unfortunately due to being on the jugular vein it is inoperable but that’s just life!

So I take these examples and feel more confident that if I say my arms feel tingly and leaden and my finger tips burn - I should be trusted and believed! I do not have heightened sensitivity to pain or sensory changes but no do I ignore them if they negatively impact on my life!

So your response has confirmed to me that this confidence is well placed. Thanks so much!
__________________
If you get lemons, make lemonade

Sjögren’s, Hashimoto’s and Systemic Sclerosis with Raynaud’s, Erythromelagia and small fibre polyneuropathy, GI problems top to tail, degenerative disc disease and possible additional autoimmune diseases
MAT52 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cervical, disc, i’m, left, significant

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hope for degenerative disc disease? Hanshan Spinal Disorders & Back Pain 0 06-07-2014 09:17 AM
Degenerative Disc Disease? dondvs7 General Health Conditions & Rare Disorders 0 06-28-2011 10:05 AM
Degenerative Disc Disease and nerves Skully Spinal Disorders & Back Pain 5 01-10-2011 11:04 PM
Surgery for Degenerative Disc Disease - Cervical sandi_k Spinal Disorders & Back Pain 18 02-19-2008 07:56 PM
Deciding on surgery for degenerative disc disease GJZH Spinal Disorders & Back Pain 0 11-18-2006 02:15 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin • Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.7.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
 

NeuroTalk Forums

Helping support those with neurological and related conditions.

 

The material on this site is for informational purposes only,
and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment
provided by a qualified health care provider.


Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.