[mistiis]

I'm not even sure how to begin this. I know I can't get everything here in detail. I've been in the thick of this mess now in person for over a week and by phone for some months now. The situation with my son has brought up some really difficult stuff, but also given me some more understanding of men, emotional pain, and society's varied attitude on suicidal ideation and how men are "suppose" to act.

Enough men have expressed as much to me and now it is all making some sense.

Why, oh why can't people understand that God gave men tears too?? Why can't people understand that men hurt too?? Why can't they understand that men have sensitive hearts and spirits too?? Why can't they just let a man have a good cry?? Especially when his whole world is falling apart around him, and he is losing most of everything that means something to him? I just don't get it.

Because he told a friend that he was just going to cry himself to sleep, a friend took it that he was suicidal and called in authorities which has created a nightmare of events. He never was suicidal to begin with.

On the one hand I am grateful that someone was watching after him, just in case. But, on the other hand, he wasn't suicidal and it has cost him a lot.

I don't know, just thought I would bring it up for discussion.

Something else I have noticed, men seem to be, for the most part, more intellectual about suicide, and, I think, therefore more apt to complete the job. This is very hard to talk about.

My grandchildren, especially the young teens are more at risk, as their world comes apart too. I have dried more tears, and am doing my best to be supportive.

All the things we have tossed around in here and discussed have been a big help to me. It is true that you just can't fix some things. All you can do is be there and be supportive.

It's so hard to watch one woman cause so much pain to those around her. If I've said too much, please forgive me.

Physically, the wounds are healing...emotionally is going to take a long time....

[Alffe]

I'm so glad you're there to dry those tears and offer your son the support and understanding that only a mother can. It's so hard to see our loved ones hurting both mentally and physically.

And I don't get it either...never have Mistiis. It's true that men grieve differently then women but that attitude of sucking it up and "fixing it" just drives me up the wall. Tear Soup is such a wonderful read...get him a copy.

[DMACK]

MY Dear mistiis

it would have been too obvious as a Man to reply on the day to your insightful post.................but like a MAN i held baCK

Most men think they have it all worked out, but sadly don't [me 2]
Most men think their way is the only way
Most men think stuborness is a masculine trait
Most men think suicide is an honurable act [when all else reasonable has failed]
Most men think no one wants to talk about MALE feelings
Most men think [big boys don't or should'nt cry]

This man thinks, [me]
It's not as easy as most think to openly tell another human what your thinking or feeling
To admit life is that crass that suicide is an option

That you can't do it alone [life that is]

oR WORSE STILL you you want to go it; alone/ or have no choice but to go it alone

`IT is hard that men do not confide in other men about painful issues [unlike the fairer sex]

MEN on the whole are introspective, selfish, and egotistical creatures, that often cant do right 4 wrong.......or is that just me?

David[im not from MARS...even if youre from VENUS]

[Alffe]

David david david..... I can only agree with a little of what you said.
I've been married to the same man for 52 years and I know him pretty well. When Michael killed himself Mr.Alffe tried to be stoic for my sake. At the funeral (and it was a huge funeral with his peers there) he was social, affable, and grateful for the "turnout".

What was he feeling? Like a failure. If he can't fix the doorbell he feels like he failed. I can't remember ever seeing him cry and that is amazing and very sad imho.

The men I've known feel like they have to "fix" everything and as I've said before, somethings just can't be fixed.

There's a place for all of us in this world but surely you men need to lighten your load. And there is nothing more appealing to women then men who show their feelings...if men could only get that!

[Addy]

So many brilliantly written points of view from you mistiis, alffe and David

Mistiis I believe that you are someone who is leading by example both here and in the life with your family and other friends .... you are looked up to... you appear to be strong ... to everone... unless you tell them that you, too, are struggling. So hold up there... as you hold up the others around you. I hope you're doing more than just OK.... xo

David... I am glad you came back to reply to this thread which in turn brought both me and Alffe back . I think there are many, many different "types" of men, too....

One, who I am very close to... is very logical. He is also brilliant - in the sense that he can dictate, step by step how his hip replacement surgery will be performed (yawn, says I!) ...

I don't know why it is that we always think we have to figure people out... but we do.

Alffee, it makes my heart ache to think of the pain Mr. Alffe and you have suffered! (52 years is bloody amazing!!!! ) <<<< YIKES... I edited this to add: I don't mean 52 years of marriage was the suffering ... I meant Michael!

I'm losing my train of thought so I'll end it here....

I just love it when I learn from you all.

xoxoxo Addy

[thelonely1]

People are always talking about how young girls are heavily influenced by society to strive for the "perfect" body image, and how they are supposed to act, etc. But you almost never hear that young boys are influenced in a way that is at least as destructive.

We are, under no circumstances, to show any emotion, (other then anger ). If we do we will be ridiculed forever by all of our friends that are also male. And I know for a fact that most women claim to want a man who can share their emotions with others. But experiance has taught me that those same women are actually attracted to the stereotypical "bad boy," the one who follows his own rules and does whatever he wants. So, in order to get a girl we will have to be a "bad boy;" and bad boys don't cry.

I know how stupid it sounds, but gut attraction is the first step towards an intimate relationship, and girls just aren't attracted to nice guys. Hence, the reason why I've been alone for over 22 years now.


IN SUMMARY
----------------------------------------
Society Dictates:

- Emotionaly crippled rebel = Attractive

- Emotionaly open nice guy = Unattractive

[Alffe]

It gets better Lonely1...honestly, it does. Call it immaturity, or late bloomers...if we can survive the importance of adolescence..dawn will come. I get what you are saying and memories of my youth came flooding back..I hated high school...I was not popular...I was a geek in the band..yadda yadda. *grin All of the "wrong things" mattered most in my life. I wanted to be like everyone else and I wasn't..I was just me and I didn't like being me.

You are a treasure, waiting to be discovered. Some day you will be amazed at the person you've become....trust me on this.