I need to vent a tiny bit and mostly just let some things out and maybe get advice .
so here is the situation.
I have two contacts both had trail for the PNS aka neuro stim. one was very successful the other wasn't and it failed to help her with the pain. both of these two people were pretty good friends before I came into the picture. so the one whos trail failed dosent really chat at me or anything she write the other friend.
well things have been getting darker and darker in the messages she sending. she is speaking of suicide and such.
too I have to add that this friend whose trail helped we have become pretty good friends and she has shared some of the message with me. I have been trying to get her to stop reading all the emails and the posts.I want her to heal from the trail and just be well over all in mind body and spirit ..so she is ready for the final implant. in doing that I have been telling this friend she needs to call this persons husband and let him see the big true picture.let him know his wife is considering suicide. I have told her to do this a good many times. today we made promise to each other that 1-- she will call the hub and speak with him and 2 --that if she dose that I wont post to this person directly in a forum in which I would speak to the whole forum and let everyone know what she has talked of doing.

I do not think it is fair for anyone to be held hostage by someone else who talks of taking their own life.It has made me very angry up set and crying. I can only think of what my friend is feeling like and the guilt she has shared with me over this. I just want to help her.I want to make a protective bubble around them both and make everything all right for them both. My friend is barely able to deal with her own pain as she waits for the final implant.
I do not want to ruin their friendship but i know that will happen when the other finds out this friend has shared with me. I do not know what to do.
am I doing the right thing by trying to get friend to call that persons hub and telling him what is going on with his wife??????????????????? Tell him his wife is suicidal and has thoughts and plans. is that wrong to do????
please any advice or suggestions would be priceless.
thank you ahead of time for anything anyone can say share or advise.
PEACE
BMW


p.s.
yes i have given my friend the suicide hot line number. she is thinking of calling it just to be able to talk to someone about the friend and maybe get help that way.She is also giving the number to the friend too.

This is so unfair on many counts BMW. You cannot be held responsible, or hostage to anothers threats...now how to tell our hearts and minds this!!
I've said many times that if someone is hell bent on ending their life, you really can't "fix" that. And, just my opinion....yes, I would urge you to have her tell the husband..at least you could share this fear although it's possible that he knows. Hard to hide that kind of depression from people you love. It's always about choices in this life...I love you for caring.

Can you print out my signature link and give it to them?



If you are feeling suicidal now, please stop long enough to read this. It will only take about five minutes. I do not want to talk you out of your bad feelings. I am not a therapist or other mental health professional - only someone who knows what it is like to be in pain.
I don’t know who you are, or why you are reading this page. I only know that for the moment, you’re reading it, and that is good. I can assume that you are here because you are troubled and considering ending your life. If it were possible, I would prefer to be there with you at this moment, to sit with you and talk, face to face and heart to heart. But since that is not possible, we will have to make do with this.
I have known a lot of people who have wanted to kill themselves, so I have some small idea of what you might be feeling. I know that you might not be up to reading a long book, so I am going to keep this short. While we are together here for the next five minutes, I have five simple, practical things I would like to share with you. I won’t argue with you about whether you should kill yourself. But I assume that if you are thinking about it, you feel pretty bad.
Well, you’re still reading, and that’s very good. I’d like to ask you to stay with me for the rest of this page. I hope it means that you’re at least a tiny bit unsure, somewhere deep inside, about whether or not you really will end your life. Often people feel that, even in the deepest darkness of despair. Being unsure about dying is okay and normal. The fact that you are still alive at this minute means you are still a little bit unsure. It means that even while you want to die, at the same time some part of you still wants to live. So let’s hang on to that, and keep going for a few more minutes.

Start by considering this statement:

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens
when pain exceeds
resources for coping with pain.”

That’s all it’s about. You are not a bad person, or crazy, or weak, or flawed, because you feel suicidal. It doesn’t even mean that you really want to die - it only means that you have more pain than you can cope with right now. If I start piling weights on your shoulders, you will eventually collapse if I add enough weights... no matter how much you want to remain standing. Willpower has nothing to do with it. Of course you would cheer yourself up, if you could.
Don’t accept it if someone tells you, “that’s not enough to be suicidal about.” There are many kinds of pain that may lead to suicide. Whether or not the pain is bearable may differ from person to person. What might be bearable to someone else, may not be bearable to you. The point at which the pain becomes unbearable depends on what kinds of coping resources you have. Individuals vary greatly in their capacity to withstand pain.
When pain exceeds pain-coping resources, suicidal feelings are the result. Suicide is neither wrong nor right; it is not a defect of character; it is morally neutral. It is simply an imbalance of pain versus coping resources.
You can survive suicidal feelings if you do either of two things: (1) find a way to reduce your pain, or (2) find a way to increase your coping resources. Both are possible.

Now I want to tell you five things to think about.
1You need to hear that people do get through this -- even people who feel as badly as you are feeling now. Statistically, there is a very good chance that you are going to live. I hope that this information gives you some sense of hope.
2Give yourself some distance. Say to yourself, “I will wait 24 hours before I do anything.” Or a week. Remember that feelings and actions are two different things - just because you feel like killing yourself, doesn’t mean that you have to actually do it right this minute. Put some distance between your suicidal feelings and suicidal action. Even if it’s just 24 hours. You have already done it for 5 minutes, just by reading this page. You can do it for another 5 minutes by continuing to read this page. Keep going, and realize that while you still feel suicidal, you are not, at this moment, acting on it. That is very encouraging to me, and I hope it is to you.
3People often turn to suicide because they are seeking relief from pain. Remember that relief is a feeling. And you have to be alive to feel it. You will not feel the relief you so desperately seek, if you are dead.
4Some people will react badly to your suicidal feelings, either because they are frightened, or angry; they may actually increase your pain instead of helping you, despite their intentions, by saying or doing thoughtless things. You have to understand that their bad reactions are about their fears, not about you.
But there are people out there who can be with you in this horrible time, and will not judge you, or argue with you, or send you to a hospital, or try to talk you out of how badly you feel. They will simply care for you. Find one of them. Now. Use your 24 hours, or your week, and tell someone what’s going on with you. It is okay to ask for help. Try:

• Send an anonymous e-mail to The Samaritans
• Call 1-800-SUICIDE in the U.S.
• Teenagers, call Covenant House NineLine, 1-800-999-9999
• Look in the front of your phone book for a crisis line
• Call a psychotherapist
• Carefully choose a friend or a minister or rabbi, someone who is likely to listen

But don’t give yourself the additional burden of trying to deal with this alone. Just talking about how you got to where you are, releases an awful lot of the pressure, and it might be just the additional coping resource you need to regain your balance.
5Suicidal feelings are, in and of themselves, traumatic. After they subside, you need to continue caring for yourself. Therapy is a really good idea. So are the various self-help groups available both in your community and on the Internet.
Well, it’s been a few minutes and you’re still with me. I’m really glad.
Since you have made it this far, you deserve a reward. I think you should reward yourself by giving yourself a gift. The gift you will give yourself is a coping resource. Remember, back up near the top of the page, I said that the idea is to make sure you have more coping resources than you have pain. So let’s give you another coping resource, or two, or ten...! until they outnumber your sources of pain.
Now, while this page may have given you some small relief, the best coping resource we can give you is another human being to talk with. If you find someone who wants to listen, and tell them how you are feeling and how you got to this point, you will have increased your coping resources by one. Hopefully the first person you choose won’t be the last. There are a lot of people out there who really want to hear from you. It’s time to start looking around for one of them.

Now: I’d like you to call someone.

And while you’re at it, you can still stay with me for a bit. Check out these sources of online help.
Additional things to read at this site:

• How serious is our condition? ...“he only took 15 pills, he wasn’t really serious...” if others are making you feel like you’re just trying to get attention... read this.
• Why is it so hard for us to recover from being suicidal? ...while most suicidal people recover and go on, others struggle with suicidal thoughts and feelings for months or even years. Suicide and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
• Recovery from grief and loss ...has anyone significant in your life recently died? You would be in good company... many suicidal people have recently suffered a loss.
• The stigma of suicide that prevents suicidal people from recovering: we are not only fighting our own pain, but the pain that others inflict on us... and that we ourselves add to. Stigma is a huge complicating factor in suicidal feelings.
• Resources about depression ...if you are suicidal, you are most likely experiencing some form of depression. This is good news, because depression can be treated, helping you feel better.

Do you know someone who is suicidal... or would you like to be able to help, if the situation arises? Learn what to do, so that you can make the situation better, not worse.

• Handling a call from a suicidal person ...a very helpful ten-point list that you can print out and keep near your phone or computer.
• What can I do to help someone who may be suicidal? ...a helpful guide, includes Suicide Warning Signs.

Other online sources of help:

• The Samaritans - trained volunteers are available 24 hours a day to listen and provide emotional support. You can call a volunteer on the phone, or e-mail them. Confidential and non-judgmental. Short of writing to a psychotherapist, the best source of online help.
• Talk to a therapist online - Read this page to find out how.
• Depression support group online: Walkers in Darkness - Please note: this is a very big group, but amidst all the chatter (and occasional bickering), it is possible to find someone who will hear you and offer support.
• Psych Central has a good listing of online resources for suicide - and other mental health needs.
• Still feel bad? These jokes might relieve the pressure for a minute or two.
• If you want help finding a human being to talk with in person, who can help you live through this, try reading this article about how to Choose a Competent Counselor.

Sometimes people need additional private help before they are ready to talk with someone in person. Here are three books you could read on your own in private. I know from personal experience that each one has helped someone like you.

• Suicide: The Forever Decision by Paul G. Quinnett, PhD (Continuum, 1989, $8.95, ISBN 0-8264-0391-3). Frank and helpful conversation with a therapist who cares. Order the book
• Choosing to Live: how to defeat suicide through cognitive therapy by Thomas E. Ellis PsyD and Cory F. Newman PhD (New Harbinger Publications, 1996, $12.95, ISBN 1-57224-056-3). Another conversational book with practical help for suicidal persons. Order the book
• How I Stayed Alive When My Brain Was Trying to Kill Me: One Person's Guide to Suicide Prevention by Susan Rose Blauner (William Morrow, 2002, $17.47, ISBN 0066211212). A very practical survival guide by an actual survivor. Order the book

• <LI style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #666666">I make no profit whatever on the books. Every penny received is given to The Samaritans to support their lifesaving work. The volunteers give generously of themselves, but it costs them money to continue operating and saving lives - money for facilities, phones and computers. Money is a reality. They need it; we give it. Sending them this small donation is our way of thanking them and helping them continue to help others. If you would like to know where the money goes, visit the Samaritans website. If you prefer not to make a donation to the Samaritans, take the book information above to your local bookstore and order the books there instead.
• If you would like to make a donation directly to the Samaritans, click here.

• Out of the Nightmare: Recovery From Depression And Suicidal Pain, by David L. Conroy, PhD (Authors Choice Press, 2006, ISBN 0595414974). Unfortunately out of print; sometimes used copies become available. As if suicidal persons weren't feeling bad enough already, our thoughtless attitudes can cause them to feel guilt and shame, and keep them from getting help in time. Dr. Conroy blasts apart the myths of suicide, and looks at suicidal feelings from the inside, in a down to earth, non-judgmental way. This is a book that will save lives by washing away the stigma of suicide and opening the door to a real way out of the nightmare. More info and reviews

Want to share your suicide story?
Please visit the Suicide Project and leave your story
Have feedback? Please write us

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/whattodo.htm

2. Take it seriously.
   
   Myth: “The people who talk about it don't do it.” Studies have found that more than 75% of all completed suicides did things in the few weeks or months prior to their deaths to indicate to others that they were in deep despair. Anyone expressing suicidal feelings needs immediate attention.
   Myth: “Anyone who tries to kill himself has got to be crazy.” Perhaps 10% of all suicidal people are psychotic or have delusional beliefs about reality. Most suicidal people suffer from the recognized mental illness of depression; but many depressed people adequately manage their daily affairs. The absence of “craziness” does not mean the absence of suicide risk.
   “Those problems weren't enough to commit suicide over,” is often said by people who knew a completed suicide. You cannot assume that because you feel something is not worth being suicidal about, that the person you are with feels the same way. It is not how bad the problem is, but how badly it's hurting the person who has it.
   
3. Remember: suicidal behavior is a cry for help.
   
   Myth: “If a someone is going to kill himself, nothing can stop him.” The fact that a person is still alive is sufficient proof that part of him wants to remain alive. The suicidal person is ambivalent - part of him wants to live and part of him wants not so much death as he wants the pain to end. It is the part that wants to live that tells another “I feel suicidal.” If a suicidal person turns to you it is likely that he believes that you are more caring, more informed about coping with misfortune, and more willing to protect his confidentiality. No matter how negative the manner and content of his talk, he is doing a positive thing and has a positive view of you.
   
4. Be willing to give and get help sooner rather than later.
   
   Suicide prevention is not a last minute activity. All textbooks on depression say it should be reached as soon as possible. Unfortunately, suicidal people are afraid that trying to get help may bring them more pain: being told they are stupid, foolish, sinful, or manipulative; rejection; punishment; suspension from school or job; written records of their condition; or involuntary commitment. You need to do everything you can to reduce pain, rather than increase or prolong it. Constructively involving yourself on the side of life as early as possible will reduce the risk of suicide.
   
5. Listen.
   
   Give the person every opportunity to unburden his troubles and ventilate his feelings. You don't need to say much and there are no magic words. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it. Give him relief from being alone with his pain; let him know you are glad he turned to you. Patience, sympathy, acceptance. Avoid arguments and advice giving.
   
6. ASK: “Are you having thoughts of suicide?”
   
   Myth: “Talking about it may give someone the idea.” People already have the idea; suicide is constantly in the news media. If you ask a despairing person this question you are doing a good thing for them: you are showing him that you care about him, that you take him seriously, and that you are willing to let him share his pain with you. You are giving him further opportunity to discharge pent up and painful feelings. If the person is having thoughts of suicide, find out how far along his ideation has progressed.
   
7. If the person is acutely suicidal, do not leave him alone.
   
   If the means are present, try to get rid of them. Detoxify the home.
   
8. Urge professional help.
   
   Persistence and patience may be needed to seek, engage and continue with as many options as possible. In any referral situation, let the person know you care and want to maintain contact.
   
9. No secrets.
   
   It is the part of the person that is afraid of more pain that says “Don't tell anyone.” It is the part that wants to stay alive that tells you about it. Respond to that part of the person and persistently seek out a mature and compassionate person with whom you can review the situation. (You can get outside help and still protect the person from pain causing breaches of privacy.) Do not try to go it alone. Get help for the person and for yourself. Distributing the anxieties and responsibilities of suicide prevention makes it easier and much more effective.
   
10. From crisis to recovery.
    
    Most people have suicidal thoughts or feelings at some point in their lives; yet less than 2% of all deaths are suicides. Nearly all suicidal people suffer from conditions that will pass with time or with the assistance of a recovery program. There are hundreds of modest steps we can take to improve our response to the suicidal and to make it easier for them to seek help. Taking these modest steps can save many lives and reduce a great deal of human suffering.

WARNING SIGNS

Conditions associated with increased risk of suicide

• Death or terminal illness of relative or friend.
• Divorce, separation, broken relationship, stress on family.
• Loss of health (real or imaginary).
• Loss of job, home, money, status, self-esteem, personal security.
• Alcohol or drug abuse.
• Depression. In the young depression may be masked by hyperactivity or acting out behavior. In the elderly it may be incorrectly attributed to the natural effects of aging. Depression that seems to quickly disappear for no apparent reason is cause for concern. The early stages of recovery from depression can be a high risk period. Recent studies have associated anxiety disorders with increased risk for attempted suicide.

Emotional and behavioral changes associated with suicide

• Overwhelming Pain: pain that threatens to exceed the person's pain coping capacities. Suicidal feelings are often the result of longstanding problems that have been exacerbated by recent precipitating events. The precipitating factors may be new pain or the loss of pain coping resources.
• Hopelessness: the feeling that the pain will continue or get worse; things will never get better.
• Powerlessness: the feeling that one's resources for reducing pain are exhausted.
• Feelings of worthlessness, shame, guilt, self-hatred, “no one cares”. Fears of losing control, harming self or others.
• Personality becomes sad, withdrawn, tired, apathetic, anxious, irritable, or prone to angry outbursts.
• Declining performance in school, work, or other activities. (Occasionally the reverse: someone who volunteers for extra duties because they need to fill up their time.)
• Social isolation; or association with a group that has different moral standards than those of the family.
• Declining interest in sex, friends, or activities previously enjoyed.
• Neglect of personal welfare, deteriorating physical appearance.
• Alterations in either direction in sleeping or eating habits.
• (Particularly in the elderly) Self-starvation, dietary mismanagement, disobeying medical instructions.
• Difficult times: holidays, anniversaries, and the first week after discharge from a hospital; just before and after diagnosis of a major illness; just before and during disciplinary proceedings. Undocumented status adds to the stress of a crisis.

Suicidal Behavior

• Previous suicide attempts, “mini-attempts”.
• Explicit statements of suicidal ideation or feelings.
• Development of suicidal plan, acquiring the means, “rehearsal” behavior, setting a time for the attempt.
• Self-inflicted injuries, such as cuts, burns, or head banging.
• Reckless behavior. (Besides suicide, other leading causes of death among young people in New York City are homicide, accidents, drug overdose, and AIDS.) Unexplained accidents among children and the elderly.
• Making out a will or giving away favorite possessions.
• Inappropriately saying goodbye.
• Verbal behavior that is ambiguous or indirect: “I'm going away on a real long trip.”, “You won't have to worry about me anymore.”, “I want to go to sleep and never wake up.”, “I'm so depressed, I just can't go on.”, “Does God punish suicides?”, “Voices are telling me to do bad things.”, requests for euthanasia information, inappropriate joking, stories or essays on morbid themes.

A WARNING ABOUT WARNING SIGNS

The majority of the population at any one time does not have many of the warning signs and has a lower suicide risk rate. But a lower rate in a larger population is still a lot of people - and many completed suicides had only a few of the conditions listed above. In a one person to another person situation, all indications of suicidality need to be taken seriously.
Crisis intervention hotlines that accept calls from the suicidal, or anyone who wishes to discuss a problem, are (in New York City) The Samaritans at 212-673-3000 and Helpline at 212-532-2400.

I copied and pasted the first reply and it is being sent to the other friend as we speak. I didnt see the last post but will do the same with it.
ALFFEMOM I LOVE YOU PERIOD.
I love you for being here!!!! I feel better ... my friend said she felt better being able to send this to the other friend Thank You for helping me help someone else God Bless you over and over!!!!!
PEACE
BMW
wanted to add that I have all of this in a file now saved and it is on my desktop of the comp. since this is not the first time I have needed this info. maybe other would like to do the same as all of the info you gave us Alffe is almost as priceless you are Alffe!!!!!!

Thanks God
ALFFEMOM that was on target and a life saver to the one at the other end of the "chain relay message "..

I know a couple other helped too you both know who you are
Thank You From "us" to all of you.
and mostly Thank God.
PEACE
BMW