aroughhhhhhh....how could I have lost the long reply!!! Will try again.

I agree with you in principal Barb. Caring drs. looking the other way, or supplying the means is something devoutly to be wished...at least on my part.

Doctors are afraid to prescribe enough painkillers to their chronic pain patients to keep them from suffering. If you are lucky enough to have a long relationship with your dr. you might be able to broach that subject.

What's really important is to have your wishes in writing, and your loved ones aware of them...while you still have all your buttons. *grin

I'm not suprised that you cared for ill and dying patients Barb. Your posts are filled with love and compassion.

In the "lost in space" post I made reference to my dear brother who died in agony from cancer. One of the doctors talked about the "glory of suffering" and I wondered if it was because he died in a Catholic hospital....Only Christ gets to talk about the Glory...my brother was just a man. A wonderful one but there was no glory in what he endured.

We were posting at the same time Lara. And I couldn't have said it so eloquently either time. *grin

So, some of that obviously does make sense? lol amazing. Well, it makes sense to me of course, 'cause I think it, but I'm glad it makes sense to you too Alffe.

((((((Alffe)))))),

That's probably where my 'different' viewpoint comes from. The visiting nurse agency that I worked with and the one that my Mom was handled by also worked with the local hospice program. At the time, the hospice was 'home hospice' so patients were involved with a doctor and nurses who DID provide 'home' health care.

My ex-husband was in hospital hospice -- I did see the difference. Good support from the doctors and nurses (actually excellent support) but different than 'home' care.


((((((Lara)))))),

You made a lot of sense. You actually got me to see your viewpoint It *IS* your decision to make.

I guess a lot of my thinking is colored by my history. Because of my brother's suicide and because of my own attempts, I feel that ending a life is 'not right'. But, actually, realistically, I shouldn't be forcing my beliefs and values onto you. Right??!! Thanks for the insight


Barg

When my uncle was in the hospital here dying of heart disease he was in so much pain that my parents tried so hard to get him some help. Unfortunately it was too late and although I didn't go in to see him afterwards my sister shared that he looked awful and even after death he had a terrified look to his face. It was a hard way to go not being able to breathe.

Then my BIL was diagnosed with cancer many years later and hubby and I worked very hard to get him out of the hospital setting and into hospice when it was getting close. He had a wonderful 2 weeks there and they brought him anything he wanted. He was actually happy believe it or not. My hubby was able to stay with him for as long as he wanted to rather than be dictated to about visiting hours. When it was near the end the nurse asked hubby if he thought that his time had come and if he was ready. He was in a coma and had been for 2 days. He was in alot of pain and had fought a hard battle. So just like that he died very peacefully and I thanked the nurse for all that she had done for him, not just that day but everyday.

Next it was mom who had a stroke and we watched her deteriorate. The docs told us that she would be blind, not able to eat, paralyzed and many other problems. She would need to be put in a nursing home and that was the last thing she would have wanted. She had talked about this many times as Huntingtons runs in the family and we had a couple of uncles in nursing homes when their family could no longer handle their care at home. Her last moments after they took the breathing tube out were very peaceful as they too had given her morphine for "pain control"

If I had to choose which way to go would I choose struggling to breathe in a hospital bed or peacefully falling asleep? Well I guess I would have to say help me go gentle into that night. It should be something that families could discuss before it comes to a crisis that way everyone would know their wishes and could do all they could to help them along the way...Sue

My sister died at the age of 34 from metastatic breast cancer. She suffered horribly the last entire year of her life.

Her last month was spent in the hospital and she didn't receive decent pain relief until very near the end. They were STILL giving her injections of dilaudid. I raised a huge ruckus when it got to the point that the nurses couldn't give her her pain injections on the 4th hour because her veins just weren't accessible. I watched her suffer when that 4th hour came around because she depserately needed morphine. They would give up and have to have the EMTs come to her room to give her the injections.

Anyway, I'll never forget the day when her '4th hour' passed and she had tears from the pain. I was literally screaming at the nursing staff. That afternoon they set her up FINALLY with a morphine drip IV.

Not many days after she spoke to her doctor and asked if he could please give her something to put her 'under' because she knew she would die in a few days, she felt it. And he did. She didn't tell us, but did say goodbye to her best friend. She told her she couldn't say goodbye to us.

At any rate, she suffered unmercifully. I think that hospice must have been a little known thing at the time or we would have moved her.

She had to be put in a special bed filled, I believe, with sand and constant air movement because she couldn't get out of bed anymore and her bedsores were terrible. The tumors in her spine were huge and the cancer had spread to the rest of her bones, her brain, lungs, everything. Just touching her hurt her.

Dignity is one thing. But I can't stand to see people suffer. I'm sick to death of people with relentless pain and suffering not getting the relief they need. Thank god for hospices for people who are dying. At least they are treated with what they need.

By the way, my sister did not die peacefully. Even under the influence of whatever they had knocked her out with, she gasped for breath and shot straight up in bed and looked at my dad, her eyes huge with fear. He gently laid her down and lay with her talking to her while she died, praying as they escorted my hysterical mother out of the room.

People have been killing themselves for years for one reason or another. I feel that it's their choice, not mine. And I don't believe that taking your own life is a sin.

Sorry for the lengthy jabber, but I'm a firm believer in controlling people's pain even if that means narcotics. We have the means to control pain and suffering. We have the means to help people die when they are suffering. What we don't entirely have is a society that condones relief by whatever it takes, and again, I'm sick to death of that.

My mother and father say that if you kill yourself you'll go to hell. It's a 'sin'. Well, if you do a LOT of stuff, you'll go to 'hell'. (Which reminds me they've also said gay people will go to hell if they don't ask for 'forgiveness' and I asked about my cousin who is gay, will he go to hell? My mother hesitated, very much liking my cousin, and after a long silence said, "Yes he will if he doesn't accept God and ask for forgiveness.") Well, I want no part of a religion with those kinds of beliefs.

If I'm suffering and I wanna go, drug me up and let me go!

doody. i was holding my brother when he died. thankfully at home and with morphine. he was 35.

i don't believe that it's a sin to let the soul go. like your sister and my brother...their bodies were dead already.,..just the was cancer alive.

mercy? has our society forgotten the meaning of mercy?

butt squeezes for the room.

Darn. I was going to come back and edit out all that about my sister so as to not upset anyone and you already saw it Monkey Doody! *sigh

I'm sorry about your brother.

It's hard to talk about a lot of things on a forum but I really do appreciate the honesty with which you've all written. It's a very confronting subject and I admit it was difficult for me to write my post so imagine everyone else felt a bit the same. Well, I should say that it was more difficult to actually start it, but once I started it just flowed out. It's good to be communicating.

I guess what I was thinking was that if I could have, I would have helped my sister do whatever it was she wanted to do.