Addy touched a nerve when she asked about Michaels "health".

One of the problems with losing a loved one to suicide is that a lot of it is guess work. Our son was a big, strong, physically healthy 31 yr. old with a good job, a big booming laugh.

Did he have problems?.....sure, money was always a problem and his fiancee had gone to Florida with her parents and was pressuring him for a ring. He also had a bad cold, half a bottle of brandy to drink, and the Bears lost.

Did he have a future? We all thought so...did he have plans, yes. did he leave a note? No.

Was he mentally ill? Not in our opinion...our being me, his dad, sisters and brothers in laws who he'd planned to go camping with the coming weekend.

So why did he pick up that gun and blow his head off? I'll never know for sure but in my heart I have concluded that it was an impulsive act. I had a lot of help coming to this conclusion...especially from my old friend PTer from OBT.

Why am I reacting so strongly to Addys' implication that Michael was "ill"....
because it's judgemental! The implication being that people who would complete suicide must be mentally ill....horribly depressed...etc.

I believe that he despaired at that moment and said "F*** It"

I started a thread years ago on OBT....The Ultimate F*** You was it's title and it offended more than a few people. But I wanted to make the point that a loved one killing themselves truly feels like the ultimate rejection.

So Addy, I guess I can't answer your question.

Each suicidal act, I think, has it's own reason. Desperation, depression, pain, who knows. Millions of reasons. Impulsive sometimes, yes. The last person I knew who killed himself had a myriad of problems going on. He was very altered, however, when he committed the final act. Altered on drugs and alcohol and very desperate. No money, wife left him and took kids, death of his closest friend, fired from his job, a very sick mother and more.

I think something as simple as being broke can lead you to take your own life. (if you can call being in debt and never having enough money simple!) I personally have thought many a time about how nice it would be to die so that I didn't have to deal with money problems anymore. But then I have the depression monster hovering around and that makes it worse.

I agree you don't have to be physically or mentally ill, but something is there that pushes you over the edge.

Exactly. There must be at least a moment of desperation. Suicide is a desperate act. I hope those that complete the act get the relief they wanted.

I think we have all had F*** it moments. I know I have.

Some just don't act on it. Others do. For those that do, I honestly believe most of them are no longer tormented. They are at peace from the demons that haunted them (whatever they may have been).



((((((Alffe))))))

In order for a suicide to be impulsive...one must have immediate access to the "solution" to the pain. Michael did...he had a gun right there. He had a permit to carry it for his job.

That's why I hate hand guns...easy access...very wrong decision.

Only this week did we learn that had he lived, he'd be the grandpa to a baby boy. How proud he would have been of that. Instead of enjoying his grandchld, he's left a legacy that he wouldn't have wanted. If only he had stopped to think! So what should only be a joyous event, is tinged with memories and pain.

My husband wondered why the baby wasn't named after our Michael. Who would want to name a newborn after someone who committed suicide? Put in that light, he agreed with me.

So the point is...don't kill yourself. don't leave those left behind this "forever pain."

alffe

the brandy..it had to play a big role. i know this is such a difficult subject for you hon. but alcohol can cause bad depression. even just a single night of overdoing it.

how many of us have had a night with friends..had a few drinks..and someboidy..if not us...starts to get sentimental..cries..or even gets really upset? i bet lots.

alcohol clouds your judgement. if it didn't who in their "right" mind would get in a car after drinking? or drink at a family gathering and put your family..your kids in your car?

i know you would have seen signs alffe.

i hope this new great grand baby gets the chance to know you and your wonderful family.

No question about it Curious...alchohol lowers your inhibitions, gives you false courage and impairs your judgement.

Difficult subject??? Understatement....

Thank you for your kind words about the baby Curious.

Alffe

It always sounded like an impulsive act to me too. It's why I stay away from narcotic drugs and alcohol - impaired judgment. It's the main reason I won't allow a gun in the house - too quick and easy.

I don't trust myself when I get depressed. My depression isn't a clinical mental illness - it's due to being terrified about the future. No pill or therapy will change my future. My depression surrounds my physical illness, but it's not really caused by my physical illness. There's no pill to cure my illness. My best bet to avoid suicide is to remain clean and defenseless.

I'm so sorry you had to lose your son in such a horrible way. I appreciate you sharing your story of Michael with us over the years. If you hadn't, chances are I wouldn't be here.

The guns. That's how the last suicide in our lives happened. One of 3 that used guns. A 4th one used a shotgun. The friend I mentioned earlier with all of those problems. He had a gun.

He went to his parent's house who lived just down the street from him. In fact, that night he was at his parent's house and they were trying to talk him into going into treatment. They wanted him to stay with them at their house because he was SO altered on drugs and alcohol. He got into an argument with his father and ran out the door. Only moments later neighbors called the parents, said they thought they heard a gun. His dad ran to the house but of course was too late.

I loathe guns.

And I'm glad you brought that up Alffe. How easy that would be. I am SO GLAD I don't have a gun at my house OR know anyone who does. Chances are...I wouldn't be sitting here typing this to you at this moment.

Well you see how it is around here...friends helping each other up off the floor.

Can't express how much your support means to me...especially when it's the same old, same old. It's always about forgiveness with me...you'd think I'd learned by now...when you carry that garbage around, you are only hurting yourself.

I will be missing out on some great joy if I can't let go of my hatred. those of you who know me, understand my struggle with this.

Hugs for the room and my heartfelt thanks for putting up with me.

I was thinking and probably thinking too much and in my overthinking, I wrote something that was never and would never have come across as judgemental if I had written with more care and yes, more thought.

I hesitated when I wrote my question about Michael. I didn't hesistate long enough. Maybe I would have left the thread alone... because I really didn't focus in on the point of the whole thread.

I do not judge anyone who has taken their life. I'm so sorry that my poor choice of words was interpretted that way.

Yes Michaels suicide was impulsive.
My gut wretches and I want to spill out my heart and insides when I attempt to imagine your grief dear Alffe.
I do not judge your son.
If anything, I attempt to understand your son.
I attempt to understand a lot of things around me.

I'm so sad that I knocked you to the floor Alfeeeee