I thought some people might find this an interesting discussion so am posting it here. It sort of fits in with some questions that hsiw (Wish) raised quite a while ago when she was doing her psychology studies but I figured I'd just start a new post.

http://www.abc.net.au/cgi-bin/common...s/s1117871.htm
ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) Radio National.
Ockham's Razor:30 May 2004 - The science of the self

Quote: Cultures impart order and meaning to our lives. It is important that they do this in ways that meet human needs and reflect social realities. Modern Western culture, with its focus on materialism and individualism, does neither of these things. This amounts to a form of cultural fraudulence, an extreme consequence of which is an existential despair that leads to suicide.

The good news is that some recent research suggests we are waking up to this fraud and reacting against its influence. Many of us are uncomfortably aware of the gap between our values and lifestyles, between what we believe and how we live; more of us are exploring ways to close that gap and to live lives that express our values more clearly. We are trying to be more genuinely autonomous.

What makes our times so confusing, and research findings often contradictory or ambiguous, is that we are seeing parallel processes of cultural decay and renewal, a titanic struggle as old ways of thinking about ourselves fail, and new ways of being human strive for definition and acceptance. But this is another story. unquote


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what an interesting article!! I had to print it, all 8 pages of it for my suicide folder. thank you Lara and in my humble opinion this also applies to so many facets of our society. We hear Robyn Williams on NPR here also but I missed this program.

I thought you might like to see that one, Alffe.

The Science of Self....in case you missed it!

Thank you Lara. It was a very interesting article.

It makes sense to me that our focus on materialism and individualism can lead to suicide. The first one (materialism) is an incredible burden, and the second one is incredibly lonely. Neither one serves as a connection to this world or as a reason for living. Life isn't all about earning a paycheck and owning things. What connects us is family, friends, and community because at the core we are communal beings - not loners.

I hope this isn't a trigger for anyone, but there's another group that concerns me - adopted children. It's always been a big thing for me because when I was pregnant with my son I was going through a divorce. People pressured me hard to give my child up for adoption, saying it would be hard to be a single parent raising a bi-racial son. The arguments they gave me held no water. Sure, another family could have provided material wealth and a "mom and dad" at home, but they could NOT have provided my son with his "roots." He'd be surrounded by things, but would have no story of his own. It would have been MUCH harder for him if I had given him up for adoption because the story of his adopted parents would have nothing to do with him.

I was extremely suicidal when I was first diagnosed with familial amyloidosis, after watching my mother suffer and die from the same illness. Winning the lottery and buying a fancy new car or home in the mountains would not have made a difference. What kept me alive was my connection to my family and ancestors. I found my strength in the story of my mother, my grandmother and great-grandmother. It is more than an "inspirational story" because it belongs to me too - their blood runs through my veins. If they could do it, dammit, so can I.

If, God forbid, my son inherited this disease, their blood also runs through his veins. He also has a lot of strong stories from his father's side. Thank God I didn't, but IF I had given him up for adoption, his adoptive parents would have NO CLUE how to support him or keep him alive if he did inherit this disease.

I'm sure he thanks a Higher Power every day that you kept him dear lady.

And I just put a postie in the mail to you...I know you didn't sign on for this but since I had your address....I used it!

Aw, thanks ((Alffe))

While I'm on my soapbox, I'd like to address another concern - girls having babies because they want a child of their own. So many are under the impression they can mold the child to be whatever they want without consideration of the father. Fathers aren't mere sperm donors. Chances are, the child can be EXACTLY like the father regardless of how the child is raised. So if a young woman really wants to have a child by a boy she knows, she better be sure she loves that boy inside and out - quirks, behavior and all. She may have to spend the rest of her life living with a smaller version.

People who knew my ex-husband used to tease me about my son - asked me if I contributed anything besides a womb and lighter shading. From Day 1, my son has been exactly like my ex-husband - quirks, behavior and all - throughout every stage of his life. There's NO WAY he could have learned this from my ex because they never spent any real quality time together when my son was young.

When my son was home on leave recently, he spent some time with his biological father and family. It was the first time they were together as "men." My MIL said it was almost scary how alike the two of them are down to the smallest detail - they even walk the same.

I may not "love" my ex-husband anymore, but it's a good thing I've always liked him.

Okay, off my soapbox now - didn't mean to take this off-topic.

"Many of us are uncomfortably aware of the gap between our values and lifestyles, between what we believe and how we live; more of us are exploring ways to close that gap and to live lives that express our values more clearly. We are trying to be more genuinely autonomous."

I don't think I was ever more aware of that gap than last weekend at our sleepover. Young people today talk about EVERYTHING and even in front of their parents and grandparents. They wouldn't dream of having sex with their boyfriends but oral sex is just heavy petting!

And parents thinking how great this is because their kids can talk to them...TALK to them??? It shouldn't be about how tight and short your pants are...what have you read lately? Or how pretty you are or what a hunk your boyfriend is....THAT and $1.25 will get you a cup of coffee!

And these kids all have their own cars, and ipods, and pool memberships, etc....Are we doing them a favor? Will they be able to do the hard things?
Like...will they keep and raise the baby if they get pregnant?

~sigh

some are clueless alffe. it's sad. yep, they "talk" but most of the parents never correct the kids or their way of thinking.

the sex issue is a big one. i posted awhile ago about some of the kids on lil'monkeys myspace friends list. over and over posting on how cold sores were NOT herpes and couldn't be spread.

the same discussion about oral sex not being sex or that nothing could be spread or caught happened last year. it got cleared up fast and they all learned.

i do my best with lil'monkey. she is 14. has a job. she has learned the value ( or non value ) of a dollar. she pays for all her entertianment, clothes, pays me gas money if i have to cart her around. she also has learned that since she has a paycheck and most of her friends don't, they think nothing of asking her to pay for them. she can say NO rather well.

I'm sure your lil monkey has all the right stuff curious cause she has a mom that cares enough to say no, wait, here's what's important.

I wasn't talking exclusively about my wonderful gd's..they had a houseful of friends over, boys and girls and the conversation was just so casual about things that still make me blush.

I know...I'm old!