Tragic statistics
As you know, my Dad also used a gun, or rather a rifle. I do own a gun. My sister is the victim of domestic violence, she went through a very ugly divorce a year and a half ago with her ex threatening to kill her and the children. For that reason, I did feel the need to protect them. I carried it in my purse every where we went.

When my Dad took his life in March, when I so desperatly just wanted to go and be with him.... I called Lynn's son and asked him to come take my gun.
My sister does have her own gun, but I asked not to know where it is. Not that I think I would ever do anything....but well how many times did I hear my Dad say those exact words....

Yep, just as I suspected. Just another "crazy homeless woman" bothering "good" people by looking for a compassionate heart and a little help. I'm sure she'll find one now, huh?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6972428.story

do you think it was ok for her to murder him?

no matter what her situation was, homeless or not, does that make it ok for her to kill someone? why shouldn't people try and find a police officer to help when someones acting like that? why do you say she was looking was for a compasionatte heart and help? i didn't see that any of the witnesses said that.

not all homeless are homeless because they have no where to go. some choose it. some refuse all offers to help when they have a mental health problem.

Curious

If there's any blame to be placed, I blame the woman who was initially bothered by this homeless woman. It's not that hard to shoo them away in a humane way without having to call the policemen to apprehend them.

Is it against the law to be poor and lose your home? Is it against the law to see if you can get a meal for the day? Is it against the law to ask people for donations to charity?

That woman was pushed away from society, again and again. Most likely, she was also spit on and treated like a dog over and over again. Most people don't prefer to sleep on hard cold floors out in public. She had to do this night after night.

Why would it be "surprising" that she would come to a point in her life when she said "ENOUGH!!"

I'm not excusing what she did. She committed murder. I'm just saying that's what happens when guns are involved - even when you think you have good judgment and know how to handle a gun.

It's a shame that woman on the bus couldn't have said "I'm sorry, I can't talk right now - I'm in a hurry and have no spare change." The policeman would still be alive and the homeless woman would not be in critical condition facing murder charges. I hope that woman boarding the bus is proud of herself for doing the "right thing" by calling the "authorities."

i take it you have never been accosted by a person who is mentally unstable before?

i have. you can not just shooo them away. sorry, that is a very pollyanna attitude.

you set yourself up to assalted by getting into any conversation. they do not just walk away.

do you know her specific situation? do you have facts on her?

she could have grabbed anything to attack him. so imo it is not a matter of gun control.

i am very proud of the woman for calling the authorites. i hope more people will do that.

i guess i should pull up the video of the tourist who got killed whil ehe was giving a begger money. yeah...we should just shoo them away.

I have also been assaulted twice. Once in the laundry room of the apartment building where I lived and once on the "T" in Boston. The laundry room incident was quite traumatic b/c the man had a knife and chased me for quite a ways before I finally eluded him. Out of 6 women he attacked, I am the only one he did not catch. He was looking for someone specific in our apartment complex and he would have killed her if he had found her.

The "T" situation was different. It was early morning, the guy car was packed and the guy was drunk. He was all over me and not one person would help me even though I was screaming for help. I got off as soon as the doors opened and continued to walk to my office. I was so shook up I was not able to ride the "T" to work for almost a month.

Sometimes it is necessary to carry protection. I do. I have been trained. I take carrying a weapon very serious. I have a carry permit and I do take protecting myself as serious business. Otherwise I would not continue to carry. When I am unable to use my pistol as it should be used, then I will put it away. So does having a weapon make me a potential target or a potential murderer?

Kathy, when you put the blame on the woman who was bothered by the homeless woman you have crossed the line. All she did was ask for help from the bus driver. I would have done the same thing if someone was bothering me like that.

I am a very compassionate person and give to homeless people on the street, donate to charities, and our church feeds the homeless one Saturday a month. Other churches do it the other Saturdays. If someone who suffers from a mental illness was making me uncomfortable I would ask for help just as the lady on the bus did. Would that make me responsible for their actions after the fact? I think you need to open your mind a little to the other side of this...Sue

Curious

I take it you're not aware my favorite past-time is hanging out with the homeless on the streets of Chicago.

I take it you're not aware I grew up on the streets of Chicago. I take it you are not aware I was married to a black man, with him for 10 years, and encountered MANY people filled with rage. I've had plenty of encounters with schizophrenic "mad men and women" I've been shot at from a distance, had a loaded shotgun pointed at my nose, backed into a corner and threatened with death by a shovel, and ran for my life FAR too many times to count - beginning at the age of 10. Go ahead, call me Pollyanna again.

I understand where you are coming from. It's scary to live a life without fear, but IMO fear alone does not justify murder.

If I approach you on the street, dressed in rags, stumbling from the ataxia and equilibrium problems, mumbling incoherently because amyloid is in my voice box and my mouth doesn't work - will you recognize me and smile, or will you draw your gun and call the cops? Will you see me as a drunk/drug addict, or will you see me as a person suffering from a rare illness or someone who broke down and tried to take pain killers to ease her pain?

I'm going to dedicate this one to this poor chatty homeless woman who was labeled a menace to society and grew into an "evil cop killer."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irp8CNj9qBI

I never dreamed that this tragic article about suicide statistics would need a trigger icon...kind of ironic. Our Michael killed himself with a handgun...guns make it so easy to react to our depression.

Hugs for the room.

I hope I can say what I am about to say without offending anyone...well, nobody will probably bother reading it anyways...

weapons, have always been around since the beginning of human history. Before they found the spear heads, they were using sticks, rocks, fists.

weapons, have always been an evolving process.

I practiced martial arts as a child, I did it back then because I wanted to fight back. They taught about honor and how to defend yourself. But I was angry at the time, I learned it so I can kick those people's butt that picked on moi.

then I got out of it for about 10 years and have just recently in the past two years started to practice again, but from a different perspective (if you're still reading, bear with me)

These days, I got back into sword fighting. I've always loved swords. But I don't think about killing. I think about the art form behind it. I think about how it is an extension of me. I think about how it helps me relax and control my body when I am ticcing...I think about honor...not about killing or hurting others...

honor, is something that is both innate and taught. One can be born with an honorable heart but it needs to be shaped and formed and regulated.

I think weapons and honor should go hand in hand.

During WWII, Japanes soldiers raped many women, from young children to the elderly. They killed almost 250,000 people and did most of that by bayoneting.
They then burn a lot of them alive, they bayoneted pregnant women and raped them and then split them open and took out the embryos and eat them.

I am not saying this to degrade the Japanese folks. I have friends that are from Japan and they are wonderful folks.

That was a war and that was what it was.

so, my point here is killing can be done by any means. People have been strangled by towels, people have been killed by knives, people have been stoned to death.

IF someone has it in their heart to kill, they'll find a way, no matter what.

If someone has honor in their heart, you can put a nuclear warhead in their hands and they will not fire it unless it is absolutely necessary.

Samurais had that code before WWII, a lot of them were taught honor system. But when they enlisted folks that were farmers and criminals and uneducated during WWII, those were of the majority and they did the killing without honor...

For me, personally, I don't care for guns. I can't even hold one without shaking. But I understand the need for it. Da wife and I were out looking at properties one day and almost got shot at. This was last summer. But that guy was a nut. The policeman that came had gun. He needed it to protect us.

The argument is always that if it the gun is not there, it won't happen. I don't agree with that. I think the Columbine shootings would've just been columbine bombing or Columbine slashings.

We live in a community where this is hotly debated, those that are for guns and those that are against guns. We have friends of both sides.

But for me, personally, it goes back to having honor. If I was to ever meet Av8rgirl or curious and they carried a gun, I would NOT be afraid of them wanting to shoot me. If I was to meet KM, I know she would be a woman of honor and will not try to slash me with a knife or punch me with her fist.

I think the circumstance of this homeless woman has a lot of variables...

1) we don't know why she is homeless. I've known people that are homeless by choice cause they are truly lazy and enjoys a free meal and didn't mind sleeping on the streets.

2) I would suspect that she was mentally ill. I would then blame the system. Why wasn't she in a hospital or in a mental facilaty where she needs to be, to be treated rather than being on the street?

3) Reactions, if I was a policeman and I just saw someone shoot my partner and she still has a gun. I would've reacted the same way at that given moment. My heart would be pounding, my hands would be sweating, my adrenaline would've surge all over me. I would've only had a split second to react cause I wouldn't know if she would've shoot me, or another by-stander or not.

Perhaps the woman that the homeless woman approached could've been more tactful or more patient. But who knows, she might be having one of those days that her father or husband is dying, or she just found out she has cancer. And she did the right thing, IMHO by calling the police because that IS the policeman's job. To serve and protect. Forget about corruptions and why some of them are jerks. Every job has it's bad apples...

it was tragic that it had to end this way. That policeman's family will suffer, this homeless woman's family, if any, will suffer, the cops that shot her will have to live with their decisions, and the woman who called the police will have to think about if she could've approach it a better way.

But, in a scenerio such as that as it happened. We are all individuals and we have to make the decisions that we all have to live with. Mentally ill, honorable, homeless, cancer, or not...every decision, is an individual, unique decision...

OK, I know you've probably fallen asleep now...that's OK, I wrote this for myself anyways...

can I just say that I respect both sides and have shared my own and let's not forget that this thread is about killing oneself with gun?

If there were no guns, those that want to kill themselves will find another way...but once again, that's just my opinion. Cause my own preferred method has always been the bridge.....