"shut up" works for me. *grin...I say out loud...LEAVE ME ALONE!!

distraction is the key, Stotty.

I put on a book-on-tape, or play some favorite music.

alternately, FOCUSING also works.

keeping busy, and concentrating REALLY hard on what I'm doing seems to help.

I nearly lost my DD the day after her 16th birthday to suicide... although I have a lifelong history of depression, (and the Betaseron didn't HELP!) never before had I ever thought of ending it all.

I'm glad they warned me at counselling that I might begin to experience suicidal ideation, because I *did*

life just all of a sudden seemed too much to be borne.

and pretty regularly since then (family holidays, anniversaries of deaths in my family), the notion pops back into my head, like a cuckoo clock, for the past 14 years.

music, movies, reading favorite books, and listening to books-on-tape are what help me drown out the negative voices, since I can't drive anywhere - that's what I USED to do for this "problem" go to the ocean, and watch the waves crashing on the shore, that would get my head back on straight, and remind me just how small my problems were in the REAL scheme of things...

you'll get through this dear, I promise.

...prayer, meditation, music, it all helps us to re-focus, and bring in that power that is greater than we are... I like that idea cayokay about being out in nature too. I love the ocean, and being there always lifts my mind to something higher, a greater purpose for it all. Now, the ocean is a bit further away, so I use other methods. The thoughts of 'it' have been tormenting me a bit lately. This morning I mentally started throwing snowballs at those thoughts. It Worked!!!!! That helped me. Imagination can be a wonderful thing when tempered with intelligence, and focused.

I am grateful that you didn't lose your DD (((cayokay))) keep fighting....

there ya go, gauze paddings...

so many different ways...because we're all so different...that's the good and the bad part about being unique individuals...if we were all the same, we'd all have the same cure...

I think for me, I cannot replace the suicidal thoughts...part of it is because of my obsessiveness...my damned OCD would keep me holding on to it..

I have tried everything...meditation, books, music, even used to be a self-injurer by pinching myself until I bruise...to "FEEL" something because I was so NUMB...

the emotional pain numbs me all over then the physical pain brings me some relief because I can actually FEEL something...

what paradox it is...


through the years, I've learnt to ride it out...

when I am down to that utmost negativity...I find skin and bones so foreign and my mind is enclosed in box...nothing could penetrated it and nothing can get to it...

it becomes a stubborness that is recalcitrant to the core...

I have even literally banged my head against the wall at times in trying to alleviate that pressure and that didn't seem to do the trick...

one of the blessings of coming here is the ability to lurk...

I feel like I am surrounded by people that I love and care about that cares about me back...they don't know that I am here yet I am here...

alone in a crowded room yet not really alone...not sure if I am expressing myself right...

I would keep myself logged in while I am working and even though nobody knows I am here (well, maybe except the mods, ) it feels "safe"

anyways, that's just my own experience...I think you've gotten a lot of wonderful input and knowing you, I know you already have your own input...

you just needed to hear one that is the closest to what you are feeling so you don't feel like you're alone...

now, you'll have to share with us how you dealt with it too when you are ready, K??

(((((BIG HUGS))))) to you and to all that had shared...

you all are Super Wonderful beings that I have utmost respect of....because I know how HARD it is...to LIVE....

I hear you, Moi. Get the analogy. I'm going to turn that into a stress eating thing. And I'd be a chips and salsa gal and chocolate and other stuff.... then I get ****** that I put on weight....... vicious cycle.

Can it sound crazy to say that while I can talk about a LOT of things here, I cannot bring myself to post such very, very personal thoughts like what's running in my head on this board?

Part of it, I think, embarrassment..... and I can't get over that feeling. So it inhibits me from doing it. I'm ok with the physical stuff, just not posting the mental stuff. I don't know totally why.

Oy.... that's hard. I keep trying that Twink. And I fail.

Mistiis, that's a great way of looking at it. I need to figure out how to redo the canvas of my mind. I feel like Jackson Pollock's paintings when I really need to be a color block painter, defined, or a futurist--motion, but controlled.

In the book Dune, there is a Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear that goes, "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." That quote made my life different. In fact, the whole book changed my life.

Lara, I quoted your whole post because yes, my mind gets stuck on them. It's like the NTN--Negative Talk Network playing in my head 24/7. I'm a champ at narrating my own negativeness and put downs. But often it's more of narrating a situational negative and sometimes extending it to others, not just me.

I'll need to look up The Imp of the Mind.

I'm one of the ones who needs to relearn. It does go back to childhood. I was the one child who took the brunt of it all from my alcoholic parents. My brother sort of rode it out and I stood as shield to him.

How can you guys help? Moi had it right. I need input. Input is better than anything because it can help me gain perspective. Plus, an occasional "safe" dump of my head is ok. But I really need to trust to be able to do that safely. Most of all, I fear ridicule and laughter and just want my head to be treated with respect--gently but firmly if it needs to be moved from the thought process. My ego is surprisingly fragile although I don't give that impression to people.

The ocean's good, Cayo. There was a period a few years ago when I said that what I needed was a month at the beach doing nothing but staring at the waves every day. My soul needed that. My head needed the emptiness, the vast power capable of overwhelming, the repetition, the cleansing, the newness.....

And I thought up to just a few years ago that it was "normal" for everyone to have those ideations. I never talked about it with anyone. Turns out it's not. I've had them since a kid. Started thinking about it when I talked my brother down from shooting himself in the head when he was about 8-9. Can't remember the age exactly. I'm 3 years older than him.

I know you're right, Cayo, I will. It's just a matter of making it there before I drive myself bonkers. But I vowed never to let myself get myself into a deep dark hole like I did in 2003 when I sat on the edge of my bed every night staring at all my pill bottles and thinking to myself, "Is this all there is? Is this what my life's become?" And sometimes I had a full glass of water sitting there too--just in case I couldn't talk myself out of those questions. I'm good at defending an alternative position--thank goodness.

Moi, yes. Individual and different. Approaches vary.

And I understand the lurking thing too. I'm just sick of feeling like I'm alone with people in the flesh. That's hard. But I can be here and surrounded, alone but not alone too, play if I want, be serious if I want, or not.

I did/do need to hear something closest to what I'm feeling and/or thinking.

One of the frustrating things with my experience with counselors is that when I went to them in the past because of my parents' drinking, I only heard from them things I had thought of myself already. Then I read books on alcoholism and read things I'd done and thought already for myself without knowing the "right" things to do.

Sometimes it helps to hear others, not professionals, think out loud. Hear what works/worked for them. KNOW that it's something I could do. Or hear that maybe I need help.


I came to THIS forum because a lot of things made me come here--not just the really bad thoughts in my head--the repetitive negative stuff too. I know you all understand that here. It's what leads you down the merry path of "well, why not?????......." and try or what lead someone close to you to do that.

I am not at that point. You need to hear and know that.

Nevertheless, I needed YOU for your heads and hearts. And I thank you for giving of yourselves.

Just thank you..... because you've helped.

Jan, I left you out on purpose--I will--you don't have to.

((Gazelle)) Your post was very moving, and you helped me this night. Truly. I can't post the true thoughts in my head either. I can't post what I see in my nightmares , what I post here is but a fragment of the pain I feel. I think this is very normal. I think it is our need to protect ourselves.

I sometimes fear I will bring people down, that my pain, could have a domino effect on others. And I don't ever want to be the cause of making someone else feel down! So I find I keep things in....

But then part of me feels, NO, I need to let those who are thinking, why not.... .... I AM THE REASON WHY NOT. One need only look at my posts to see the hell - that why not is causing me. Not just me, my whole family. Every single person in this world matters, if at times...not to themselves, then to someone. "Us someone’s", we are the reason why not.

Some how, this is a good mix here, and it works! We have those who are surviving a loss, and we have those who are fighting to survive life. Some are doing both. Our mixed pain co-mingles, and we see the others pain. We gain strength from each other. We would like to help give you strength too I think it vital that you DO KNOW, you are safe here. This forum is about helping each other survive. I think you very brave, and I thank you for sharing! Nikki

I am not sure if anyone can truly say what's in their haids, ole haidless chicke'm (why do you have like 20 nicknames, btw? LOL)...

I know there are thoughts in my head that I'll never share with another human being...I think that's a right that we all have and need to reserve for ourselves...

I think what we all can share IS a bit of our dark side...it does help because I think that when we see that others have a bit of dark side also, that we then don't feel so alone...

you know what my chip and salsa are in this very post?








and, your words...plus all those that hit the thanks button..and the ones that are reading in silence nodding their head without saying a word...

those are great chips and salsas and they are fat free...you can EAT as many of those as you like as you ride it out...that's what I do....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While I have stated that I have tried this and/or that and it didn't work for me or doesn't work for me, I also will tell you that I might go back and try them again...

one of the most interesting things I have learned about myself is that nothing is EVER constant....everything changes....

I think there will be time when one thing will NOT work but might during other times, I think there will be time when one thing WILL stop working, then, we simply go to something else...

this is where I remember you and I were discussing quantum physics....

it doesn't just applies to electrons that have their free will...it applies to all these chips and salsas...

and I'll give you a physical example...I love chips, if I find certain flavors that I like, I would end up buying a couple more bags of it, then I'd get sick of it and try something else....but much later, I will go back to that chip again...

same thing with salsa, I love salsa sometimes but then it comes and goes....

all these wonderful thoughts from others are becoming my own collection which I'll keep it as a keepsafe in my mind...and whenever one thing stops working, I'll go to another...

and sometimes, unfortunately...all I get is limberger cheese...because that's all they have left at the store and that's what I get stuck with...

you have one of those lateral thinking minds that I've seen...you have another way of looking at the world...it's a gift...

it's also a curse....because you might feel askewed and feel like you want to skewer yourself...

and that's OK....thoughts are ok as long as we don't follow them when it is of that negativity...

a room is only useful when it's empty, but if there are no windows nor doors, it would not work either...when that happens, we'll have to kick or break down the wall...or keep trying...

a bowl's purpose is to hold things (decoration is a modern hobby for those that can afford to buy expensive bowls for pure decoration purposes. LOL)
if that bowl isn't hollow in the center, it is useless..

but when it's full, it can't hold on to anything else...

there is this old story:

a guy went to see the guru to ask the secret for enlightenment...

he saw the guru and asked him what is enlightenment, then proceeded to tell the guru what he thought and blah blah blah....

the guru didn't say a word and poured him a cup of tea until the tea overflowed all over the dude...

the guy said, hold on, the cup can't hold anymore tea!!

The guru said, "exactly! how can you find enlightenment when your head is already full?"



Take good care of yourself, ole haidless one...I know you'll be alright and I am proud of you for seeking out...you done good!

with help from your friends.... you talk, I listen...I am here anytime, you know that, my bestest buddy.

Dear Gazelle,

What a great thread. You expressed yourself so well and triggered some good answers from some amazing people.

I have to say that I have often written a post and then just delete it because I feel it sounds dumb or I might be misunderstood. I get self-conscious and hit the big DELETE. I appreciate your honesty - even about your insecurities.

I love the wisdom Moi pulled out from each of you....they should be cross-stitched on all of our walls.

(I am really hungry for chips and salsa now...I wonder if the stores have closed yet)