http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread86683.html

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((Alffe)) I couldn't get the last link to work...?

((Lara)) thanks for all the articles

((Sue)) I will try to do your experiment... wait, I WILL do your experiment Stubborn I is

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,5672765.story

Quite a man!

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jun.../et-shneidman5

They showed this at our Prevention meeting today and I wanted to share it.

Far from a morbid investigation into the enigma of self-destruction, the study of suicide is often philosophical, and Shneidman writes to clarify his ideas. His work -- 17 books that he's either written, edited or co-edited -- is an intellectual diary and a compelling reminder that suicide is part of our lives and our culture. We see it in the most diverse quarters: in the retrieval of writer-artist Spalding Gray's body from the East River in New York, in recent concerns that antidepressants contribute to suicide in youth, and in a controversy over a Britney Spears video that shows her submerging herself in a bathtub.
Over the years, however, Shneidman's lifelong project has been marginalized by the shifting winds of science. The more we study the brain and discover effective synthetic treatments for mental illness -- which, many believe, is the underlying cause of suicide -- the less critical private histories, personal stories and emotional circumstances, the major tenets of Shneidman's work, become.
Herbert Hendin, the medical director of the American Foundation of Suicide Prevention, said Shneidman was the first person in this country to call public attention to the problem of suicide. "He had a charismatic quality and played a pivotal role in dramatizing the problem of suicide."

I was sad to hear that he passed away Friday. I think I've read every book he wrote. My favorite is "A Suicidal Mind" where he defines the word psychache - intense emotional and psychological pain that eventually becomes intolerable and which cannot be abated by means that were previously successful—as the primary motivation for suicide.

“Ten Commonalities of Suicide"

The common purpose of suicide is to seek a solution: A suicidal person is seeking a solution to a problem that is “generating intense suffering” within him or her.

1. The common goal of suicide is cessation of consciousness: The anguished mind of a suicidal person interprets the end of consciousness as the only way to end the suffering.
2. The common stimulus of suicide is psychological pain: Shneidman calls it “psychache,” by which he means “intolerable emotion, unbearable pain, unacceptable anguish.”
3. The common stressor in suicide is frustrated psychological needs: A suicidal person feels pushed toward self-destruction by psychological needs that are not being met (for example, the need for achievement, for nurturance or for understanding).
4. The common emotion in suicide is hopelessness-helplessness: A suicidal person feels despondent, utterly unsalvageable.
5. The common cognitive state of suicide is ambivalence: Suicidal people, Shneidman says, “wish to die and they simultaneously wish to be rescued.”
6. The common perceptual state in suicide is constriction: The mind of a suicidal person is constricted in its ability to perceive options, and, in fact, mistakenly sees only two choices-either continue suffering or die.
7. The common action in suicide is escape: Shneidman calls it “the ultimate egression (another word for escape) besides which running away from home, quitting a job, deserting an army, or leaving a spouse … pale in comparison.”
8. The common interpersonal act in suicide is communication of intention: “Many individuals intent on committing suicide … emit clues of intention, signals of distress, whimpers of helplessness, or pleas for intervention.”
9. The common pattern in suicide is consistent with life-long styles of coping: A person’s past tendency for black-and-white thinking, escapism, control, capitulation and the like could serve as a clue to how he or she might deal with a present crisis.

It all seems to make so much sense but how could it? #5 says it all...you want to die but you also want to be rescued.

My hearing just sucks so maybe you can help me out BJ. Our chairperson said that Schneidman described depression as a four sided cube...stress, press, pertribatian??? (that's where my hearing failed me) and pain.) She said he believed that if you could intercept any one of the those, you could prevent suicide.

Alffe the third is what he calls “perturbation,” an agitated state when you perceive that your discomfort and anxiety is intolerable, like being perturbed. If all four of these conditions coincide, a suicide attempt is inevitable‐not necessarily unpreventable, but inevitable. To reduce the threat, at least one of the four conditions has to be taken away, as you said.

As Mark’s anniversary approaches something has been heavy on my mind and that is why people say he “committed” suicide. If you have no control, how can you commit it? If he had been in control, he would not have taken his life. I strongly believe that because the suicidal person’s mind is not working properly, there is a moment where suicide is no longer a choice—when all four factors collide like a crescendo. If at that moment the person has access to the means to die, the suicide will happen. If at that moment the person is prevented from taking their lives because he/she doesn’t have the means, the suicide can be prevented. I've been there and you stop weighing options. But thankfully, somehow, someway I was able to see through the pain. But so many don't.

Thank you BJ...I'm no longer perturbed.

I'm learning not to say committed suicide. "For many survivors the term "commit" has a very negative connotation, because negative things like crimes and sins are "committed." While not all survivors find the term "committed suicide" offensive, those who do feel very, very strongly about it. It is therefore recommended that you instead use expressions such as:

* "died by suicide"

* "took his/her own life"

* "Killed him/her self"

* completed suicide

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Facilitating Suicide Bereavement Support Groups: A Self-Study Manual

by John R. Jordan, Ph.D and Joanne L. Harpel

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I have a lot to unlearn!

And you dear BJ are heroic.

Schneidman believed suicidal tendencies could often begin to be untangled by asking two simple questions: "Where do you hurt?" and "How may I help you?"

We have come to learn a new language Alffe. It has its own terminology I would never have thought to be in my vocabulary. We’ve joined an exclusive club. It is one I’d rather read about than be a member of. It’s not very difficult to join. You don’t need a lot of money or education. It doesn’t take an act of God or Congress, just an act of a sad, depressed person……All it takes is a suicide.

The wounds we suffer from the suicide of a loved one will heal in time. It is the scarring that will affect us forever.

And the antidote to depression is to surround yourself with people who care. Like all the people on this forum.