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Old 02-20-2011, 08:40 PM #1
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Trig Thoughts about a dark subject

I was in a conversation earlier which somehow turned to "active" vs. "passive" suicide. We agreed that "active" suicide was to deliberately take one's own life: by gun, by overdose, by hanging, by jumping from a bridge or in front of a train...any act like that. I believe that waving a gun at a state trooper with the expectation you will shot is "active" suicide.

We agreed that "passive" suicide might include discontinuing medical treatment knowing that the result will likely be death. But then we got stuck on whether that meant, say, refusing to continue painful treatments that would only buy a few more weeks/days of a terminal illness. Or does it mean saying "I'm not taking any of my meds anymore; who cares if I live or die"? Or does it mean both?

Is it considered "passive suicide" only if your intent (conscious or subconscious) is to die? In other words, is it "passive suicide" if I engage in a life-risking behavior (over-eating to morbid obesity, chain smoking, over-consumption of alcohol, etc.) only if I say "who cares?" as opposed to being in denial about the consequences?

A person has the ethical right to refuse ANY medical treatment...right? At what point does an informed decision (calculated risk?) become "passive suicide"? At what point do "unwise choices" morph into "passive suicide"?

Sorry for the downer subject, but it was a really thought provoking conversation, and my thoughts are obviously still being provoked. Do you have any thoughts on this?
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:28 PM #2
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I don't think suicide is ever passive - more a deliberate act.

Foolishness, that's another story. Adrenaline junkies aren't suicidal. My SIL is morbidly obese, is non-compliant with medical advice, but is the first one to call an ambulance when she has chest pains. She doesn't want to die but her lifestyle choices suggest otherwise.

I don't think refusing heroic measures to stay alive is suicidal - isn't quality of life a better choice than quantity when there are no guarantees?

Most smokers I know are sure they are the ones who won't have any ill-effects, even as they hack constantly. Denial is a strong persuader.

Anyway, that's my take, I'm sure you'll get a lot more points of view!

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Old 02-20-2011, 09:30 PM #3
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thought provoking...

is it "passive suicide" if I engage in a life-risking behavior (over-eating to morbid obesity, chain smoking, over-consumption of alcohol, etc.) only if I say "who cares?" as opposed to being in denial about the consequences?


all of the above are more addictions rather than suicide, don't you think? Plus an additional cost of money and distress to those around you.

In terms of refusing medication? That is much more subtle. That is why a living will is probably a smart action to take so that your end of life decisions belong to you.

all shadowed in gray.

Not an advocate of suicide personally. It is an "all about me" frame of mind rather than what it can do to those around us. I have had many friends where suicide and addiction have affected them personally, not in a positive way.
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:09 PM #4
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I don't believe there is such a thing as "passive suicide." The simple consideration of suicide rather directly or indirectly caused requires a person to take active participation. Suicide is not something that sneaks up on people. It requires a conscious decision for both consideration then implementation.

The definition above regarding passive suicide by eating and drinking habits would thus mean the majority of Americans are "participating" in passive suicide by lifestyle.

The key is the initial mental consideration of suicide no matter how small renders it active suicide.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:12 AM #5
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my sis who is a pill popping, junk food junkie has had a large amount of surgery to fix what she has broken, and she remain non-compliant with medical care. The MDs have all told her that they are going to find her "dead in bed' if she doesnt wake up and start making better choices. To me, its the same as putting a gun to her head, but it just allows her to do it in slow motion and cause a great deal of suffering to others along the way.

The only thing I can see as a "passive" suicide is if you make arrangements with an MD ahead of time to continue to pump the pain meds at you, even if it hampers your ability to breathe, and hastens your death.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:28 AM #6
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Many of the more proactive physicians today are literally refusing to provide further medical care, or in essence firing their patients, who refuse to follow their instructions. They do not wish to be a party to someone who has so little regard for their own health.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:43 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeuroNixed Craig View Post
Many of the more proactive physicians today are literally refusing to provide further medical care, or in essence firing their patients, who refuse to follow their instructions. They do not wish to be a party to someone who has so little regard for their own health.
my sis has been refused by about a dozen MDs who have told her that they cannot help her, if she wont follow instructions. Its clear she is drug seeking and only wants to hide in a bath of pain meds. Sad really.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:35 PM #8
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I don't like this subject and hate it being here. Sorry, I had a loving wonderful Cousin, who committed suicide.

It's always wrong. Short of insanity, there is no excuse for it and I pray God forgives those who make a conscious decision to end their life.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:52 PM #9
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I am going to assume this conversation and the related thread is based on an "impression" of what suicide is. The converstaion and the original post sounds so matter of fact without understanding of this topic.

Suicide or the thought of suicide is neither passive or active --- IT IS A STATE OF MIND.

You are assuming a person is rational at the time of suicide...so very wrong.

The person who commits suicide is in a very dark place, a place where there is no hope, no way out. Irrational thinking from a very dark and irrational place...their own mind.

Before starting this type of topic make sure you understand what you are talking about.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:53 PM #10
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I don't like this subject and hate it being here. Sorry, I had a loving wonderful Cousin, who committed suicide.
I am so very sorry, Sally
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