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-   -   Scott Sonnon's Intu-flow Joint Mobility Program (https://www.neurotalk.org/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/149529-scott-sonnons-intu-flow-joint-mobility-program.html)

Coop42 09-19-2011 05:35 PM

Coracobrachialis muscle
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coracobrachialis.png

That's a muscle I'd never heard of before. I had to look it up.

Interestingly, it's a muscle that is very tight on my left side.(Nonsurgical side) However, it has loosened up a lot with the joint mobility exercises.

The nice thing about joint mobility is I've learned to just concentrate on trying to get full range of motion from each joint, and combination of joints. I don't worry about this muscle, or that muscle, and since I'm using movement, the muscles seem to strengthen themselves as they release and get healthier. Scott Sonnon has taught me to think of the body as one big muscle that works together, rather than a lot of separate parts.

Coop42 09-23-2011 12:47 PM

No doctors or therapists
 
Since I've started stretching and joint mobility, I haven't been to any doctors or therapists. I've been to my share of them over the years and they haven't been much help. Most of them didn't want to deal with me anyway. They just had no idea what to do for me.

One physical therapist that I saw told me," I was one of the tightest people she's ever seen, and I could improve a lot, but I was going to have to figure it out on my own." I was kind of passed around like a hot potato.

So I figure now that I'm making good progress by myself, why waste my time and money on doctors and therapists?

Scott Sonnon isn't a doctor or physical therapist, but I've gotten more useful and helpful information from listening to him than just about anyone else. It kind of makes the medical community look bad.

Coop42 09-27-2011 12:36 PM

Intu-flow for TOS
 
Here's a link from someone else, besides me, who recommends Intu-flow for TOS, for all the naysayers out there. TOS is at the bottom, under, "Upper limb disorders."

http://singaporekettlebellclub.com/t...net-illnesses/

Coop42 09-28-2011 11:27 AM

Reaching is getting better
 
It's taken a long time, but reaching is starting to get a lot easier for me. For the first time in many years, I'm actually able to lock my elbows out without pain. So now I'm starting to reach from the shoulder and all the upper back muscles are starting to loosen up. The lats, the traps, the rhomboids, all that stuff. It's pretty neat. Sometimes, it seems like you work on certain areas over and over, without much progress, and then all of a sudden, the muscles start to let go. Persistence pays off.

Coop42 09-29-2011 08:59 AM

Tea cup exercise
 
This is an exercise I like a lot.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ffpcRxWgsg

For many years, I couldn't even turn my palms up right in front of me. Now I can do movements like this. That's how effective joint mobility can be if you work at it.

SD38 09-29-2011 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coop42 (Post 810359)
This is an exercise I like a lot.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ffpcRxWgsg

For many years, I couldn't even turn my palms up right in front of me. Now I can do movements like this. That's how effective joint mobility is if you work at it.

Ohhhhh..... thats a tough move!!!!!! It makes me realise how tight I am in that region. I will work on it though- very CAREFULLY. The words in my head sound abit like this..... "Come on woman your 38 not 83".:o

chroma 09-29-2011 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coop42 (Post 810359)
This is an exercise I like a lot.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ffpcRxWgsg

For many years, I couldn't even turn my palms up right in front of me. Now I can do movements like this. That's how effective joint mobility can be if you work at it.

Oh man, that brings back memories from when I trained martial arts. That exercise is straight out of baguazhang kung fu. I was thinking just the other day that baguazhang has a lot of nerve glides built into it. Enjoy!

Anne4tos 09-29-2011 07:39 PM

Enjoy! :D I watched the video and had a flare.

Keep going as your getting progress, congrats. My goal is to crack the seal on the video I bought one year from now.

chroma 09-29-2011 10:07 PM

Which video will you be cracking the seal on?

chroma 09-29-2011 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anne4tos (Post 810581)
Enjoy! :D I watched the video and had a flare.

By the way, this reads humorously as if simply watching the video caused a flare. :D

Anne4tos 09-30-2011 08:41 AM

I did get a flare buy watching the video. :eek: There is NO WAY I could balance tea while swooshing my arms around. It reminded me of the spinning plate circus act.

I did buy the Scott Sonnon video, as it looks like it could have potential if I continue to make progress over the next year or so. Not opening though as I'd be tempted to try some movements and I've learned from enough mistakes!

Coop42 10-09-2011 11:11 AM

Exercise balls and kettlebell
 
My latest exercise tools are a pair of 2lb exercise/pilates balls and a 5lb kettlebell. Mainly I use these to get a little better stretch from some of my exercises. These things can be swung, twisted, turned, and rotated. I'm really into the three dimensional type of movements.

When I was young, I did a lot of bodybuilding with free weights. It didn't occur to me back then, but most of my exercise movements were done in straight lines. How often do you move that way in real life? Not many. Most real life, everyday movements, are more three dimensional.

TOS in my case, was largely a repetitive strain injury, I think. Lifting weights, and doing bodybuilding type movements just added to that, but that was 30 years ago and I didn't know any better. 30 years ago, there was pretty much no information out there on TOS and repetitive strain injuries.

So now everything I do is more three dimensional movement type exercises. I'm trying to get all the flow back in my body. This stuff is working way better than the Edgelow protocol ever did for me. There just wasn't enough movement in it. I've spent hours working on my shoulders and arms. Lying on foam rollers and breathing can only get you so far.

Coop42 10-13-2011 09:44 AM

Opening the jar of pickles
 
There used to be this old joke that went something like this:

How does a TOSer open a jar of pickles? They drop it on the cement.

I always liked that one because opening a jar was always so painful for me. I've always had to use one of those jar openers with the handle on it, to get more leverage, but even that was painful. Some tough jars were impossible.

The point I'm getting to here, is, yesterday, I was feeling pretty good and I was actually able to open a jar with my hand, with no pain after. Maybe it was just an easy jar, I don't know. But I've noticed more and more lately, that little everyday things like this are starting to get easier. It's an encouraging sign.

chroma 10-13-2011 09:51 AM

Congrats on making progress!!

Btw you mentioned that you like 3D exercises and you like that Ba Gua tea cup exercise. You should look into moving qi gong which is all 3D exercises and originates from the same culture that created the tea cup exercise. You can find some DVDs on Amazon with reviews.

Coop42 10-13-2011 09:56 AM

Thanks, chroma. I'll check it out.

Coop42 10-25-2011 02:31 PM

Inflammation is good
 
I know that sounds a little crazy but inflammation is actually good, in my case. I always get it if I've added some new exercises or stretches. It just lets me know I've stretched some injured tissues that aren't used to it. Sometimes after doing something new, the inflammation may take three or four days to calm down, and I've been at this for more than 18 months now.

I always let the inflammation calm down before I do anymore stretching for that area. I let my arms be the guide. You can't fight fire with fire. As the tissues start to heal and get more healthy, the inflammation calms down faster, usually in a day or two. I'm trying to undo 30 years of damage here so it's a very slow process.

I also started keeping a notepad at the beginning part of the year. If I do something new, I write it down. That way, later on in the day when the inflammation shows up, I can remember why. Otherwise, I tend to forget some of the new exercises I do and wonder why I'm in pain. If I don't have some inflammation at the end of the day, I don't feel like I worked at things hard enough.

Coop42 10-30-2011 06:47 PM

Thinking long-term
 
"It takes similar duration to healthily transform a fitness life as it does to create an Olympic athlete: 5-8 years. 1-2 years to restore mobility, gain dietary awareness and lose excess fat. 1-2 years to restructure into an athletic foundation and remove all nutritional impediments. 1-2 years to build the physique byproduct of flowing movement and tighten a high-octane performance health nutrition platform. We can prevent frustration and burnout by setting big-dream, long-haul lifestyle transformation mindsets".

Scott Sonnon posted that on Facebook today. "1 to 2 years to restore mobility", and I'm assuming that's for a fairly normal person. For someone like me, it's obviously much longer. Reading that just helps me put things into perspective and stay motivated. This is a slow process.

fern 11-04-2011 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coop42 (Post 820126)

Scott Sonnon posted that on Facebook today. "1 to 2 years to restore mobility", and I'm assuming that's for a fairly normal person. For someone like me, it's obviously much longer. Reading that just helps me put things into perspective and stay motivated. This is a slow process.

Where can I purchase Scott Sonnon's DVD?
And where did you see this on Facebook? I think I found some other Sonnons and not the one you are referring to.

Glad to hear you are having such good results with this program!

Coop42 11-04-2011 09:49 AM

Thanks Fern. I bought the intu-flow dvds from Amazon.com. The beginner program is also free on Youtube and he sells them on his website.https://rmaxinternational.3dcartstor...Audio_c_6.html

Here's the link to his Facebook page.http://www.facebook.com/ScottSonnon

Coop42 11-04-2011 04:37 PM

A good explanation of Intu-flow
 
This guy does a good job of explaining how intu-flow works.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CQSdHIf6xHQ

Coop42 11-09-2011 11:02 AM

Having a game plan
 
I think one of the biggest reasons that I'm making progress now, and failed in the past, is I have a game plan.

The Sharon Butler Self Care Program combined with the Intu-flow program has been a great combination for me. I've been able to combine ideas I've gotten from both of them and make them my own. Just randomly doing stretches never got me anywhere. I'd improve a little bit here or there but it was never anything long lasting.

Also, I've learned to be patient. In the past I've tried to push things too hard and fast. Then I'd get a huge flare up, get discouraged, and give up.

Another thing is, now I'm starting to have a lot of confidence in what I'm doing. The first year or so into this, I really wasn't sure if it was going to get me anywhere. I thought I might be causing myself a lot of extra pain for nothing. Now that I see it's helping me, it makes it a whole lot easier to keep pressing on.

Coop42 11-14-2011 07:51 PM

Not moving is a huge mistake
 
One of the biggest mistakes I've made over the years is not moving enough. It got to the point where any kind of movement, or stretching, caused me so much pain afterwards, I just stopped. It wasn't just the TOS. I have back pain, hip pain, leg pain, pretty much my entire body.

I realize now that was a mistake. By not moving, my body just got tighter and tighter. If you don't move, no nutrition gets into your muscles and joints, so you can't heal. Basically, I was just dying a slow painful death.

I haven't come across anyone with TOS who has done Intu-flow, but quite a few people with back problems. This guy had a pretty messed up back and made the same mistake I did, he stopped moving. Sounds like he's doing a lot better now with Intu-flow and CST.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=jyW9mY_5L0U

Coop42 11-17-2011 11:00 AM

Clubbells
 
I've gotten pretty good with my 1 lb Indian clubs so I just bought a pair of 5 lb Clubbells. That's a pretty big jump in weight for a club. A 5 lb Clubbell feels surprisingly heavy because of the leverage. I'll have to go slowly with these, but I'm excited. This is all uncharted territory for me, so we'll see what happens.

Here's what a Clubbell looks like:http://www.clubbell.tv/ A 5 lb Clubbell is the smallest. I'm not trying to be a hero here. I think they go up to 45 lbs.:eek:

Anne4tos 11-17-2011 11:28 AM

:eek::eek::eek: 1 to 5 is a big jump, but you can do it! I saw them being used in a gym recently and the way the people moved with them was so cool. It reminded me a lot of Qigong, but with a weight. The Eastern practice of moving in constant 3D makes a heck of a lot of sense for our bodies.

I agree with you about moving. When I was told not to move, no cooking, no driving, rest, rest, rest, I got worse. Prior to resting, I could cook, but after several months I felt I could barely open a can or stir a pot. Complete BS!

Thank you for continuing to share your progress. The DVD is still mocking me. I haven't opened it yet as I'm afraid :eek:. I have a tendency to go all out and then curse myself later.

Coop42 11-17-2011 11:53 AM

Thank you for continuing to share your progress. The DVD is still mocking me. I haven't opened it yet as I'm afraid :eek:. I have a tendency to go all out and then curse myself later.[/QUOTE]

I hear ya on doing too much. I have a tendency to get excited with something new and over do it myself, but I'm learning. I'm wanting to play with those new clubs so badly, but I'm still a little sore from using them the first time. Patience is hard.

Coop42 11-21-2011 11:46 AM

Major flare-up
 
It's been several months since I've had a major flare-up so I kind of forgot how bad they can be. I played with the new clubs a little bit on Tuesday and a little bit on Wednesday. Obviously, it was way too much. When the flare calms down, I'm going to have to dial things back and start out much slower. Trying something new is usually when I get a flare-up but it's also kept me progressing. When I get complacent the progress usually stops.

chroma 11-21-2011 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coop42 (Post 826419)
It's been several months since I've had a major flare-up so I kind of forgot how bad they can be. I played with the new clubs a little bit on Tuesday and a little bit on Wednesday. Obviously, it was way too much. When the flare calms down, I'm going to have to dial things back and start out much slower. Trying something new is usually when I get a flare-up but it's also kept me progressing. When I get complacent the progress usually stops.

I really like the Joseph Weisberg stretch set and it only takes 3 minutes. You might consider adding it to your routine. I think it's unlikely to cause flare ups and you'll still have plenty of time for anything else you want to do.

Coop42 12-06-2011 02:40 PM

This flare is wearin' me out
 
My legs hurt so bad this morning I could hardly walk when I got up. I had to have painkillers for breakfast. Plus, every night this throbbing, shooting pain on the left side of my neck wakes me up. It's driving me crazy. I think the only positive thing I have to say right now is my surgical side really isn't bothering me that much, it's just that the rest of my body feels like it got run over by a truck.

chroma 12-06-2011 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coop42 (Post 830350)
My legs hurt so bad this morning I could hardly walk when I got up. I had to have painkillers for breakfast. Plus, every night this throbbing, shooting pain on the left side of my neck wakes me up. It's driving me crazy. I think the only positive thing I have to say right now is my surgical side really isn't bothering me that much, it's just that the rest of my body feels like it got run over by a truck.

Sorry to hear that. Is this the continuation of the same flare up you reported Nov 21?

For what's it worth, I think Thomas Hanna's Somatics and Craig Williamson's Muscular Retraining are friendly ways to get more out of your body that are unlikely to cause flareups. I'm still in the middle of them so we'll see where I'm at in another month, but so far, so good.

Also, find yourself an OMT or a PT that knows OMT.

Coop42 12-22-2011 03:41 PM

Back to back overnight hospital stays
 
Having a rough week. That big flare I was having, the TOS part calmed down, but the lower back pain sent me to the emergency room Sunday morning. I woke up and couldn't even get out of bed. When I finally managed the pain was horrific! Standing and holding onto the wall was all I could do. It had me bawling like a baby. Worst pain of my life.

I had to take an ambulance to the hospital because I could barely walk and sitting was out of the question. I've never gone to the emergency room for TOS or lower back pain before.

In the emergency room, they pumped me full all kinds of painkillers and drugs, but nothing helped much. By the end of the day, I still could barely stand so they kept me overnight and did an MRI first thing Monday morning. They said I have a lot of scar tissue in my lower back from the two surgeries I had years ago and it was inflaming the nerve roots. Then they sent me home, which I wasn't happy about because my pain was still through the roof.

Tuesday morning, I woke up and the pain was just as bad as ever. Tuesday afternoon, I managed to get into my friend's truck and back to the emergency room. At least no ambulance this time.

I got lucky this time and there was a spine Dr. on call. He gave me steroids throughout the night in my IV and I was able to move around much better in the morning. I was pretty surprised. He followed that up with an epidural and that helped as well.

I came home yesterday afternoon and am feeling quite a bit better. Still pain, but a least it's manageable. That's the worst lower back flare up I've ever had in my life. Hopefully that will never happen again.

I'm going to make a follow up visit with this spine Dr. He said if this doesn't calm me down he's got some other options we can discuss. I figure it's a good idea in case this is the start of more problems.:(

chroma 12-22-2011 05:19 PM

Good luck. Spine doctors FTW.

Coop42 03-08-2012 08:35 AM

Endocarditis and heart valve replacement
 
EVER since I was in the hospital in December for a lower back flare up, I just haven't felt good. I've been tired, dizzy, lightheaded and just plain lethargic.

I finally made it to my family Dr. and he ended up hospitalizing me. After doing a lot of tests, the doctors came to the conclusion that I had endocarditis again, which in my case was an infected mitral valve in my heart. It had to be treated with antibiotics again. The bad news is it destroyed my heart valve and it had to be replaced.

I had Mitral valve surgery February 28 and I came home from the hospital March 6 after a 2 1/2 week stay. I still have to be on antibiotics for several more weeks at home.

I'm feeling pretty exhausted right now, so I'll continue this later. Just wanted to check in.

Coop42 03-11-2012 10:05 AM

Tingling and weakness in hands
 
I've had a lot of tingling and weakness in my hands and arms in the past few weeks. Holding onto anything, or trying to open anything is very difficult, if not impossible. I'm thinking it's probably just from all the uncomfortable positions they put me in in the hospital but it worries me a little bit.

A couple of days ago I tried to cut my fingernails. I was able to cut the ones on my left hand but when I tried to use my left hand to clip the right, I just didn't have the strength. I couldn't push on the clippers hard enough to cut the nails. That's never happened before.

I'm also wondering what effect opening up my rib cage is going to have long term on my TOS. Right now, my TOS is a lot worse, but I expect that until everything starts to heal. One Dr. said it shouldn't affect my TOS any but I'm a bit skeptical about that. Time will tell.

Coop42 03-16-2012 09:45 AM

Upper back muscles
 
Since I had the heart valve surgery on the 28th my rib cage is sore where they opened me up, but it seems like most of the soreness is in my upper back muscles. It seems to be getting a little better since I can lay flat now. At first I had to keep my head propped up on pillows or I couldn't breathe good. My lungs were full of fluid but that seems to be getting a lot better. It's pretty scary when you can't breathe good. I guess when your heart's not pumping well fluid backs up into your lungs.

The tingling and weakness in my arms seems to be improving a little bit. It is the worst on the left(nonsurgical side). That arm still as a picc line(an IV) in it that could be irritating it some. I can't wait to get that out but I still have to be on antibiotics for several more weeks. I can't do much stretching or mobility on that arm because I have to be careful of the picc line. My wife gives me antibiotics twice a day through the picc line. She just hooks it up and runs in by itself. Pretty neat. It doesn't even need a pump or anything. Takes about an hour and a half to run in. Then a nurse comes once a week to draw blood and change bandages and dressings.

kellysf 03-16-2012 04:49 PM

You've sure got a lot going on right now! You're in my thoughts and I'm crossing my fingers for you, too.

Take care,
Kelly

Jomar 03-21-2012 12:46 AM

Ackk, I feel bad that I missed seeing this news until now.:eek:
Hope you recover well from all that invasive stuff. :grouphug:

Coop42 03-28-2012 11:31 AM

Breastbone Healing
 
It's been a little over four weeks now since I had the heart valve replacement so I'm able to gradually start using my arms a little bit more. The nurses at the hospital told me to limit my arm use for four weeks because it puts strain on the breastbone that was opened up. Using your arms puts strain on it and may cause it not to grow back together properly. It wasn't really that hard because my arms were painful and weak anyway. That seems to be gradually improving with time.

The difficult part was not using my arms to get out of chairs and bed. I wasn't supposed to use them to help push myself up. Getting out of chairs wasn't too bad but bed was hard. My wife had to help me with that. The last couple of days I've been working at getting out of bed myself, using my arms as little as possible, and it's getting a little easier. It takes some practice.

I still have a picc line(an IV) in my left arm so I have to be kind of careful with that. It comes out on the 6th, hopefully. I can't really do any stretching or mobility exercises with with that arm because it gets irritated from the IV, plus I have to be careful I don't accidentally pull it out. I don't need any more trips to the hospital.

My upper back muscles and arms are still causing me the most pain. The incision and chest area really aren't that bad, unless I cough or sneeze. I think most of the pain is TOS stuff.

Jomar 03-28-2012 03:34 PM

Take care:grouphug:

nospam 04-04-2012 07:59 PM

Do you regret having scalenectomy only (no rib resection)? Have you ever revisited the possibility of rib resection?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coop42 (Post 770978)
Since I had surgery 20 years ago(scalenectomy) on my right side it's always been worse and more painful than the non surgery side. However, lately I've been noticing that the two sides are getting more evenly matched. In fact, during this last flare up that I've had there's been more pain in the nonsurgical arm than the surgical one. Also, I've noticed that I now have better flexibility on the surgical side than the nonsurgical side. So what does this mean? Could it be possible that the surgery I had 20 years ago did me some good but I just never had the proper therapy to release all the adhesions? I did work that way for more than 10 years before I was ever diagnosed with TOS and had the surgery. I don't know but this is getting pretty interesting. I just plan to keep on stretching and see what happens.


nospam 04-04-2012 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coop42 (Post 864671)
It's been a little over four weeks now since I had the heart valve replacement so I'm able to gradually start using my arms a little bit more. The nurses at the hospital told me to limit my arm use for four weeks because it puts strain on the breastbone that was opened up. Using your arms puts strain on it and may cause it not to grow back together properly. It wasn't really that hard because my arms were painful and weak anyway. That seems to be gradually improving with time.

I wish you the best. My wife has mitral valve prolapse with regurgitation. We recently saw a cardiologist who believes she can live with it without need for valve repair. My fingers stayed crossed at all times these days.


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