Thanks, it looks interesting, but I'm worried it will compress that entire area further. I've gotten major relief from propping up my arm to open that area around the collar bone.

I've been wondering if the Acuforce 7.0 Massage Weighted Tool could target the first rib more precisely than the towel approach. After I see hellothere's pic, I'll decide if I want to be the guinea pig. :cool:

I also would be very much interested in this question since I have started the program last week. The shoulder circling is painful no matter how far I raise the shoulders. Is this ok? I do it very gentle, but still it hurts but I am sure I cannot just skip this excercise. :confused:

We could start another thread on this if there does not exist one already, if you want to.

KR
Monica

I tried the "moving version" of Chinese Chi Kung / Qigong and had the exact same problems with the shoulder. Plus I was worried that all the motion would add to any inflammation in the thoracic region. For that reason, I switched to the "static version" called Zhan Zhuang.

If you want to start a new thread for fresh discussion on people's results for the Butler stretches, feel free!

I couldn't endure listening to the entire presentation as his speaking skills were frustrating, so I read the text below.

I like a lot of what he had to say and his "theories" seemed reasonable, but the no stretch rule is confusing me. I can see never purposely performing a stretch, but I stretch throughout my entire day in normal activities. Driving is the first thing which pops in my mind, turning to back the car up, merging on the freeway, etc.

Is there a difference from what he terms a "stretch" to normal day to day movement?

I was also wondering if anyone ever had the maneuver performed on them which he describes as shoving the costoclavicular (think this was the muscle) up under their clavicle until they want to scream, waiting for the 10 to become 0 in pain and then releasing? I may ask my PT to torture me and see what happens.

Anne

I think in the pages that come with her TOS program (my copy is from 2003) - I believe she says if something hurts skip it or go back to what you can do with no pain or symptom increases.

and she says often to modify any of the moves so that you can do it - don't fore or push thru pain as it sets you back.

Yeah, of the 90 mins, 30 of them were "uh, uh".

I would think so. In day to day life, you don't hold those positions for very long, and you only carry them as far as needed. In intentional stretching, people might hold a stretch for 30 seconds or longer, and they might consciously or unconsciously put a fair amount of force in the stretch, often using an arm to pull the body part further. That seems very different than ordinary usage, right?

I have not and would also love to hear from anyone that has. Also, if anyone is in the midwest, I hereby volunteer them to go get treated by Stoxen and report back the results. :winky:

i agree on stretching i feel better when i just stretch the muscles with my fingers a little

I've been doing that too lately. Running the fingers along the muscle while willing it to relax and elongate.

he said something like no muscle can counteract the scalene pulling the ribs up but does serratus anterior do that

i posted a link to him awhile back, he's good. i feel sorry for all of you getting spasms *knock on wood*..stretching made my spasms worse. its more of a preventative thing imho

yeah i pull apart my scm muscle EVERY NIGHT it does help.

heres' my routine, if my hand isnt exhausted.. lie down in bed. get out cvs epsom cream (with magnesium) use it all over my scm and upper traps. i kind of rub/elongate with my fingers. it feels really good