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-   -   winged scapula and a host of other problems (https://www.neurotalk.org/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/157361-winged-scapula-host.html)

danchol 04-07-2014 03:11 AM

Will you continue with these exercises and stretches?

I'm following a similar programme and have been for over two years with no affect. I'm adamant the nerve that fires the lower trap is compressed as my left side is beginning to anterior title now.

I also have numbness is the cheek and my hand swells is certain positions. Would you recommend an MRI?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyoun1e (Post 1061618)
I keep getting into and out of trouble with the following:

Stretching/Tissue:

* Pec minor
* Subclavius
* Scalenes

Resistance Training:

* Cable rows
* Rear delt work
* Prone cobras
* Lat Pulldowns
* Face pulls
* Scapular wall slides

All of the above works the mid to low traps, rhomboids, and lats. This helps pull the shoulders back and down which can further stretch out the thoracic area.

Most recenty, I've started Foundation Training. This focuses on strengthening the core which is defined as low back, glutes, and hamstrings, but it really helps to decompress the entire spine and promotes good posture.

So far so good, but I have a feeling that the presence of cervical ribs and my stubborness in the gym will keep getting me in trouble here and there.

KY


kyoun1e 04-07-2014 02:41 PM

I will continue with this.

If you haven't had any diagnostic tests to confirm TOS I'd do so. I'd find the nearest specialist. Usually a vascular surgeon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by danchol (Post 1061924)
Will you continue with these exercises and stretches?

I'm following a similar programme and have been for over two years with no affect. I'm adamant the nerve that fires the lower trap is compressed as my left side is beginning to anterior title now.

I also have numbness is the cheek and my hand swells is certain positions. Would you recommend an MRI?


forwill 02-07-2015 08:53 PM

Any updates ?

I am struggling with a lot of you symptoms. Winged scapula and weak lower trapezius.

I have tried every strengthening technique there is .

I am starting to think it is due to apical breathing and anxiety. The thing is, apical breathing contributes to anxiety because lack of oxygen.

My levator scapulae is really tight. I have been doing active release with a lacrosse ball.

I also have a "flat" thoracic spine which may be contributing to symptoms.

Akash 04-20-2015 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danchol (Post 1061093)
I must've been half asleep when I sent that previous post - it's terrible!

I've also been going through the exact problems - did you find the root of the cause? I have a winging scapula and the 2nd is now beginning to give me issues. I've had it noticeably for 2 years now and undergone physio/rehab to strengthen the lower traps and activate the serratus - of course nothing's work.

I've been given the run around by a hatfull of docs, physios and specialists.

However, none of them had pinpointed the cause. I have rotated hips, which COULD be the cause, but all the docs dismiss this as tripe.

My symptoms are:

- Overactive trap due to tilting/winging scapula
- numbness in ear, cheek, arm and hand - possible trapped ulnar
- Extremely tight neck and soreness
- Impinged shoulder
- Weakness in arm
- Spasms in both arms

I'd be interested to know if rizzo02481 made any progress.

Thanks,

Dan

Of course rotated hips can be a prominent issue in worsening your muscle imbalances. Usual pattern is elevated hip on one side and higher shoulder on that side. Lower shoulder & rib cage on the other, and forward rotated hip. Find a PT to release the right muscles and get your shoulders evened out That in itself may release chronically tight muscles.

PS: your symptoms are the same as mine. Mine started after a horrible bike fall, whiplash injury.

thortime 06-30-2015 11:28 PM

Is the winged scapula possibly due to nerve compression? Have you seen an orthopedic shoulder specialist? Maybe he/she can tell you exactly which muscle is not functioning properly and look into the nerve that supplies it (i.e. if it's the serratus anterior muslce, then maybe there's compression to the long thoracic nerve). Unfortunately, it seems that the human body likes to compensate and then we have to deal with a domino effect. Please keep us updated. All the best.

romans8 07-03-2015 02:19 PM

I have winged scapula, significantly lower right shoulder and significant muscle atrophy of the upper and lower trapezius. I had TOS surgery that somehow gave me very brief relief (2 months) but have had serious problems since. I had a second surgery 15 months later to remove scar tissue that had no impact. About a year after that surgery I took another dive in the wrong direction.

I am now seriously doubting that my problems are TOS. My rationale is I do not have and never had any arm problems which seem to be present in all cases of true TOS. My symptoms are also aggravated more by neck movements (especially looking down) than use of my right arm/shoulder.

Based on what I have learned myself (don't we all become internet research doctors when we have suffered for years) I believe I have some sort of nerve damage/entrapment/lesion/something with my spinal accessory nerve. It innervates the traps and that is where I have pain and atrophy. I have had several nerve tests over the last 10 years and I do not have a lot of confidence in them as I get a different result each time. I have shown abnormal suprascapular nerve, then normal, then abnormal long thoracic and dorsal scapular in the three tests I took from 2009 - 2013.

My next step is to try and get somewhere that can do a more thorough and exhaustive evaluation. I am not sure where that is and I am open to suggestion if anyone has knowledge to share. I have doctors that will gladly refer me as they admit it is outside their area of expertise. IMO that is the biggest problem for a lot of us. Doctors seems to have a narrow space or niche that they do - even the prestigious ones. Also the more prestigious the bigger the ego and the more they are concerned about being right. I'm sure there are exceptions to this but I have seen several and that is my take.

Hiker 07-03-2015 05:28 PM

I am wondering about the same thing. I have atrophy of the traps (mostly middle, but also upper and lower to a lesser extent) as well as weakness and pain in that area. There is also a mild scapular winging.
Symptoms in arms have not been a major issue for me - some on and off pain and weakness which are mostly gone by now,
At least one dr agrees it could be an accessory nerve problem. He suggested an accessory nerve block, but I did not try it yet. Don't know what to expect.

JNT2014 07-05-2015 05:34 AM

First, hang in. I am well into my third year of pain that is largely debilitating, and it has been almost 12 years since I was able to exercise at 100%. Plugging away is the best option.

Second, I find it helpful to think in terms of "what can I do?" instead of "I can't do all this stuff." When I stop and ask myself, "what can I do?" I am usually surprised at how long the list is. Examples: walk, jog, tai chi (carefully), meditate, various lower body stretches, self massage, and more. None of this has been a cure, but much of it does provide temporary relief.

Third, this is a wild guess, but have you looked into diet? I have a couple of friends who have had pain issues that improved with certain diets. This sort of thing is highly individualized and remains on the outer reaches of what modern medicine would take seriously. Still, shooting in the dark is better than nothing.

Akash 07-10-2015 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forwill (Post 1122794)
Any updates ?

I am struggling with a lot of you symptoms. Winged scapula and weak lower trapezius.

I have tried every strengthening technique there is .

I am starting to think it is due to apical breathing and anxiety. The thing is, apical breathing contributes to anxiety because lack of oxygen.

My levator scapulae is really tight. I have been doing active release with a lacrosse ball.

I also have a "flat" thoracic spine which may be contributing to symptoms.

Well one thing I have learnt, that muscle inhibition is an issue. If your lats are very tight, they will pull your arm down even if you try to raise your arms and that might cause a perception of lower trap and serratus weakness.

Levator is tight as a symptom, not a cause by itself. I have the same issue.

Akash 07-10-2015 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiker (Post 1152639)
I am wondering about the same thing. I have atrophy of the traps (mostly middle, but also upper and lower to a lesser extent) as well as weakness and pain in that area. There is also a mild scapular winging.
Symptoms in arms have not been a major issue for me - some on and off pain and weakness which are mostly gone by now,
At least one dr agrees it could be an accessory nerve problem. He suggested an accessory nerve block, but I did not try it yet. Don't know what to expect.

What are your symptoms - I thought Edgelow's protocol had improved things a lot? Could it be that your lats or other tight muscles are pulling on your scap and making it harder for your lower traps?


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