[mspennyloafer]

youd know if you had gloves on

its not added sensations but a lack of sensation and fatique 24/7

i dont consider tingling the same thing, technically.

i tried releasing my p minor all yesterday, i am exhausted this morning it was tight as always, uuuuugh

most people with tos have ulnar numbness i think..but i feel mine more in my median nerve. so like, when i double click with my mouse, i hold a marker in my hand to do it, less tiring. i love touch screens now, but before tos i thought they were stupid. etc.

[mspennyloafer]

so the orthopedic doc didnt even rec a mri for lumbar

but i have 6 lumbar vertebrae

flat feet
left leg is too short
(Left side has elevated rib, scarred tspine and neck pain too. Hmmm!!)

[mspennyloafer]

I can do the tennis ball against wall on pec minor now

Only for a few seconds but I don't feel it up into my neck anymore just down into my hand

[mspennyloafer]

http://nerve.wustl.edu/TOS.pdf

"Double Crush Syndrome
Patients with thoracic outlet syndrome usually have symptoms of tingling and numbness in the hand. These hand symptoms are similar to those of carpal tunnel syndrome and cubital tunnel syndrome. The “double crush” mechanism may play a role in the development of symptoms in patients with thoracic outlet syndrome. The nerve fiber begins in or near the spinal cord and then goes all the way to the hand to give sensation and movement to the arm and hand. If the nerve is pinched at one place, then it is less likely to tolerate any more pressure along the nerve. Therefore, other tight places, such as at the wrist (carpal tunnel) or elbow (cubital tunnel), are more likely to produce symptoms with very little added pressure.


i never really thought about this but it makes sense. thats why i can push on different places like my arm, first rib pec, arm pit blah blah and make my hands tingle



With thoracic outlet syndrome, it appears that arm overhead positions and downward pulling (like carrying a heavy bag) increases pressure on the brachial plexus...........
Because pressure on the brachial plexus is irritated with arm overhead positions and these positions often cause significant discomfort; the progression of nerve compression will be much slower because you will be uncomfortable in these provocative positions and quickly learn to avoid them. This protective habit may however limit your range of movement and make certain muscles very tight........


The idea of the “double or multiple crush” is that patients with nerve compression at one site are more likely to develop nerve compression at another site. There are some diseases that can be the first “crush”; for example patients with diabetes, hypothyroidism, rheumatoid arthritis or alcoholism are more susceptible to developing symptoms from nerve compression. Some people have a hereditary susceptibility to develop nerve compression.



in another article i read that p minor syndrome actually stretches the bp, its not compressing the bp (vasc. compression different story)

[mspennyloafer]

pretty sure my serratus has been on the verge of a spasm for like 3 wks now

[mspennyloafer]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20382063
Thoracic outlet syndrome part 2: conservative management of thoracic outlet.
Watson LA, Pizzari T, Balster S.
Source

LifeCare Prahran Sports Medicine Centre, 316 Malvern Road, Prahran, VIC 3181, Australia.
Abstract

Thoracic outlet syndrome (TOS) is a symptom complex attributed to compression of the nerves and vessels as they exit the thoracic outlet. Classified into several sub-types, conservative management is generally recommended as the first stage treatment in favor of surgical intervention. In cases where postural deviations contribute substantially to compression of the thoracic outlet, the rehabilitation approach outlined in this masterclass will provide the clinician with appropriate management strategies to help decompress the outlet. The main component of the rehabilitation program is the graded restoration of scapula control, movement, and positioning at rest and through movement. Adjunctive strategies include restoration of humeral head control, isolated strengthening of weak shoulder muscles, taping, and other manual therapy techniques. The rehabilitation outlined in this paper also serves as a model for the management of any shoulder condition where scapula dysfunction is a major contributing factor.

Copyright 2010 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

the strengthening they talk about is scary but the "setting your scapula" deal is spot on

also like that they said this about external rotation exercises



yes!! x1000000

i had this happen to me, it causes traction
the more traction, the more the muscles clamp around the nerve

i am convinced now that when i just shove my shoulders back (like the awful cues they give you in pt) without engaging my serratus, that i am actually causing traction. not compression, which is why my hands tingle when doingthis



this is about soft tissue release stuff and would be more beneficial to people here

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109687/

Thoracic outlet syndrome: a controversial clinical condition. Part 2: non-surgical and surgical management
Troy L Hooper,1 Jeff Denton,2 Michael K McGalliard,1,3 Jean-Michel Brismée,1,3 and Phillip S Sizer, Jr1,3
Author information ► Copyright and License information ►
Go to:
Abstract
Background

Proper management of thoracic outlet syndrome (TOS) requires an understanding of the underlying causes of the disorder. A comprehensive examination process, as described in Part 1 of this review, can reveal the bony and soft tissue abnormalities and mechanical dysfunctions contributing to an individual’s TOS symptoms.
Objective

Part 2 of this review focuses on management of TOS.
Conclusion

The clinician uses clinical examination results to design a rehabilitation program that focuses on correcting specific problems that were previously identified. Disputed neurogenic TOS is best managed with a trial of conservative therapy before surgical treatment options are considered. Cases that are resistant to conservative treatment may require surgical intervention. True neurogenic TOS may require surgical intervention to relieve compression of the neural structures in the thoracic outlet. Surgical management is required for cases of vascular TOS because of the potentially serious complications that may arise from venous or arterial compromise. Post-operative rehabilitation is recommended after surgical decompression to address factors that could lead to a reoccurrence of the patient’s symptoms.
Keywords: Conservative management, Review, Thoracic outlet syndrome, Surgical management


shows pt mobilizing first rib and self mobilizing

[mspennyloafer]

ive gotten my pec minor to loosen up so either i have some bony anomaly (doesnt seem likely since i had xrays and mri), scar tissue (i think my range of motion is too good for this but maybe just the actual bp is scarred), traction (very likely) and neuropathy from that, or something that's not really tos at all but can set it off. tmj i know sets me off

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread136235.html

old thread

my elbow bicep tendon pain was from anterior shoulder instability

tight scalenes from improper bp nerve glide and jerking my head around
arent tight anymore but my scm is

[mspennyloafer]

new plan

ditching pec minor block idea

going to find a good pain doc to do dry needling all over my tos area especially armpit and underneath collarbone, triceps too
also going back to coq10, vitamin or grapseed extract (have to read up on these)
also im going to lift small weights for my arms, not to gain muscle but for circulation
also cont. strengthening my shoulders since i can loosen up my pec minor now

[mspennyloafer]

so i can only lift a 3 lb weight over my head

anything more and i use my scalenes, i put my hand on them and they start firing off and then everything feels "off"

but i am making progress because i couldnt even lift my arms without tingling before or ripping my wrist apart, much less hold a weight

latest theory is my hands are numb 24/7 bc i have fluid in my elbows that's pressing on median nerve.

so i had a triple crush, if this is true, scalenes, mostly pec minor and elbows. but who knows i need to get them checked out. i cant do bicep curls at all. the middle to outer portion of my elbow swells up.

a few times ive woken up and i can feel my elbow hanging from the joint. i wouldnt be surprised if i had some damage there too


alsooooooooooooo

i had to stop taking ubiquinol (coq10) i think it lowered my blood pressure too much!!

[mspennyloafer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGbjeccVJVU

good scap video, both my shoulders do this. i really think its from nerve damage