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Old 05-01-2013, 02:40 PM   #21
mspennyloafer
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Id love to get my fascia released by him (jokes). He does seem very knowledgable about that

But strengthenng stuff is wrong

Strengthening your levator scapula is a terrible idea
And I bet most people do not have week latissimus dorsi muscles if anything theyre hypertrophied

He didn't talk about pec minor enough but the scalene information was great
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:10 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mspennyloafer View Post
Id love to get my fascia released by him (jokes). He does seem very knowledgable about that

But strengthenng stuff is wrong

Strengthening your levator scapula is a terrible idea
And I bet most people do not have week latissimus dorsi muscles if anything theyre hypertrophied

He didn't talk about pec minor enough but the scalene information was great
In the article at http://teamdoctorsblog.com/2012/08/0...-dc-chapter-1/ he says he doesn't strengthen until after muscle spasms are cleared and the first rib is adjusted. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

And when he mentioned strengthening the levator and the upper trap, it was the for the purpose of elevating the shoulder girdle. For people who get relief from the cyriax release position (as I do), this would seem to make sense.

While he didn't go on and on about the pec minor, he does mention it as a factor in his first two treatment cases.

I'm more positive on his presentation than you guys are. I see at least the following differences in his treatment approach vs. the PTs and chiros I have seen to date:

-- more numerous hours on deep tissue work to clear out spasms

-- emphasis on methodically going through all related muscles. I feel like my current chiro cherry picks a couple obvious ones (pec minor & medial scalene) because there is < 30 min in the appt anyway. No time to go through everything even in a 45 - 60 min PT session.

-- special attention paid to scalenes. I don't think anyone that I've seen has directly worked on my ASMs and they most certainly need it.

-- a clear progression: spasms THEN adjustments THEN strengthening

-- special attention paid to daily postural habits. I don't recall Joyce Wilkinson or Art Ando instructing me on avoiding positions that would stress the scalenes even though they knew I had TOS

So I'm thinking about going out there (Chicago/Stoxen) as I have plateaued with my current chiro just like I plateaued with all the other PTs and chiros. I wouldn't mind hearing more from @drewanderson on his experience as it unfolds.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:26 AM   #23
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Upper trap yes if your shoulder is truly winged (like my right side) but NEVER levator scapula!!!! The real problem is the serratus anterior. Its not simply shoulders being elevated or depressed...its their rotation

Why would he mention lats and levator but not lower traps and s.a?

there's research on this all over the net, just off the top of my head:

http://osteobcn.files.wordpress.com/...ome-part-2.pdf


Ive stretched my brachial plexus to death (aka cyriax test) what most people have here is downward rotation syndrome. The levators and lats and pec minor turn on bc theyre doing work that the lower trap and serratus anterior should be doing. Theres real winging and pseudo winging. I wish i was a pseudo winger

Dr evan osar has tons of information about this and hes spot on.

I agree tho you cant do any strengthening if your fascia and rib are jammed in the wrong position
(Or something systemic like my mg deficiency)
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:53 AM   #24
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I agree - this approach does seem reasonable. Questions is, if you have to travel, how do you achieve the desired benefit if you aren't able to go on a regular basis? I worry that one visit would not provide optimal results.


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Originally Posted by chroma View Post
In the article at http://teamdoctorsblog.com/2012/08/0...-dc-chapter-1/ he says he doesn't strengthen until after muscle spasms are cleared and the first rib is adjusted. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

And when he mentioned strengthening the levator and the upper trap, it was the for the purpose of elevating the shoulder girdle. For people who get relief from the cyriax release position (as I do), this would seem to make sense.

While he didn't go on and on about the pec minor, he does mention it as a factor in his first two treatment cases.

I'm more positive on his presentation than you guys are. I see at least the following differences in his treatment approach vs. the PTs and chiros I have seen to date:

-- more numerous hours on deep tissue work to clear out spasms

-- emphasis on methodically going through all related muscles. I feel like my current chiro cherry picks a couple obvious ones (pec minor & medial scalene) because there is < 30 min in the appt anyway. No time to go through everything even in a 45 - 60 min PT session.

-- special attention paid to scalenes. I don't think anyone that I've seen has directly worked on my ASMs and they most certainly need it.

-- a clear progression: spasms THEN adjustments THEN strengthening

-- special attention paid to daily postural habits. I don't recall Joyce Wilkinson or Art Ando instructing me on avoiding positions that would stress the scalenes even though they knew I had TOS

So I'm thinking about going out there (Chicago/Stoxen) as I have plateaued with my current chiro just like I plateaued with all the other PTs and chiros. I wouldn't mind hearing more from @drewanderson on his experience as it unfolds.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:13 AM   #25
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I agree - this approach does seem reasonable. Questions is, if you have to travel, how do you achieve the desired benefit if you aren't able to go on a regular basis? I worry that one visit would not provide optimal results.
Right, he states 12 sessions before declaring conservative treatment successful or failed.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:39 AM   #26
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Exactly! Unless you can afford to stay for a month - how would you get in the desired 12 sessions. I wish people who comment on treatments, surgeries, exercise, PT, would come back and elaborate in more detail. Some just post something we all find interesting or helpful, then they disappear!
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Right, he states 12 sessions before declaring conservative treatment successful or failed.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:02 AM   #27
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Exactly! Unless you can afford to stay for a month - how would you get in the desired 12 sessions. I wish people who comment on treatments, surgeries, exercise, PT, would come back and elaborate in more detail. Some just post something we all find interesting or helpful, then they disappear!
I wish they would too, but i normally just assume that whatever the last treatment they did either cured them or killed them!
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:06 AM   #28
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Ha, ha, maybe so. It's frustrating when ppl say something helped them - but then offer no details or helpful info. I often wonder if they are legit!

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I wish they would too, but i normally just assume that whatever the last treatment they did either cured them or killed them!
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:49 AM   #29
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Ha, ha, maybe so. It's frustrating when ppl say something helped them - but then offer no details or helpful info. I often wonder if they are legit!
I have family and friends in Chicago so I will check him out when I go visit-maybe in September. I think you need at least 2-3 weeks of treatment with one person to see if it helps. I have been seeing Art Ando for 9 months and I am 50-60% better-but have plateued and looking for some other options. I think time and rest from repeitive work has been the best thing for me.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:02 PM   #30
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once my pt got my fascia to loosen up i could adjust my first rib myself but i dont have the same scalene problems that most of you have

12 sessions is nothing, you have to wait years to figure this stuff out
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