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NeuroTalk Support Groups (https://www.neurotalk.org/)
-   Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (https://www.neurotalk.org/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/)
-   -   Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (https://www.neurotalk.org/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/187605-thoracic-outlet-syndrome.html)

chroma 05-03-2013 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mspennyloafer (Post 980298)
Upper trap yes if your shoulder is truly winged (like my right side) but NEVER levator scapula!!!! The real problem is the serratus anterior. Its not simply shoulders being elevated or depressed...its their rotation

Why would he mention lats and levator but not lower traps and s.a?

there's research on this all over the net, just off the top of my head:

http://osteobcn.files.wordpress.com/...ome-part-2.pdf
Thanks for sharing; looks interesting. But note that the paper above is from 2009 and his presentation is from 2004 so he couldn't have been aware of at least that paper. :)

Also, with nine years having passed, we don't know what tweaks and adjustments Stoxen may have made to his protocol.

I don't think you have said why the levator shouldn't be strengthened other than implying that its because its better to strengthen other muscles. The "NEVER" is pretty strong though.

chroma 05-03-2013 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nospam (Post 980360)
Right, he states 12 sessions before declaring conservative treatment successful or failed.
In the article, he states:
Quote:
Surgery consultation should occur if the patient is compliant and still has not reached some relief after about 12 weeks.
Again, that sounds reasonable.

Re: out of town travel, IIRC you do multiple days in a row and multiple hours per day. I don't know if one trip lasting a week or two (plus ongoing self care) would be enough, or you would have to go back. And it could (will?) vary by case.

And don't forget that Neurotalk often collects the worst cases. People here are taking Stoxen's comments about the treatment course and applying them to this group--the TOS Misfits. (Although his Sonny Burke case sounded pretty severe like us.)

The best TOS case I've heard of was an acute one. A guy fell off his motorbike and his first rib got jammed up producing all the usual TOS symptoms. Treatment was one chiro session and it fully resolved the problem. But he didn't have "long term" TOS or any confounding factors like RSI, TMJD, EDS, etc.

Now I'm just rambling...

Woodstock3 05-03-2013 01:01 PM
Hopefully we will hear back from the person who posted that they were treated by Dr. Stoxen or someone who posts regularly will go and report back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chroma (Post 980406)
In the article, he states:

Again, that sounds reasonable.

Re: out of town travel, IIRC you do multiple days in a row and multiple hours per day. I don't know if one trip lasting a week or two (plus ongoing self care) would be enough, or you would have to go back. And it could (will?) vary by case.

And don't forget that Neurotalk often collects the worst cases. People here are taking Stoxen's comments about the treatment course and applying them to this group--the TOS Misfits. (Although his Sonny Burke case sounded pretty severe like us.)

The best TOS case I've heard of was an acute one. A guy fell off his motorbike and his first rib got jammed up producing all the usual TOS symptoms. Treatment was one chiro session and it fully resolved the problem. But he didn't have "long term" TOS or any confounding factors like RSI, TMJD, EDS, etc.

Now I'm just rambling...

jkl626 05-03-2013 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkl626 (Post 980392)
I have family and friends in Chicago so I will check him out when I go visit-maybe in September. I think you need at least 2-3 weeks of treatment with one person to see if it helps. I have been seeing Art Ando for 9 months and I am 50-60% better-but have plateued and looking for some other options. I think time and rest from repeitive work has been the best thing for me.
AND Trigger Pt injections monthly. The other say I had TRP injections just in my teres muscles which is usually one of the bad places and it helped right away-we'll see how long it lasts.

mspennyloafer 05-03-2013 01:42 PM
Why would you strengthen a muscle that isn't weak and refers pain into the neck?

chroma 05-03-2013 01:45 PM
We were discussing treatment duration earlier in this thread. In a comment on the Stoxen post from 10 days ago, Stoxen wrote:

"Many patients who read the article have called from around the world flew into Chicago to visit me at Team Doctors and had their TOS resolved in a matter of days with our 8-12 hour/day round the clock treatments."

He say "days". I'm guessing that means 3 - 5, maybe 3 - 10.

But as mentioned before, each TOS case can be different.

I do wonder if getting 8 hours of treatment in a day would be overbearing. :eek:

mspennyloafer 05-03-2013 01:53 PM
Thats a good point

I know i couldnt handle 8 hrs. Nervous system is too sensitive

Woodstock3 05-03-2013 04:19 PM
8 to 10 hours - wow! That seems unrealistic. I would need to hear testimony from actual patients who have been thru this treatment. I could understand going to 10 or 12 separate apts but this seems like TOS overkill!

Msudawg89 05-04-2013 10:03 PM
Dr Stoxen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstock3 (Post 980368)
Exactly! Unless you can afford to stay for a month - how would you get in the desired 12 sessions. I wish people who comment on treatments, surgeries, exercise, PT, would come back and elaborate in more detail. Some just post something we all find interesting or helpful, then they disappear!

I talked to him and out of town patients stay foe 4 or 5 days. He treats you for about 16 hours a day. He says you are done when you are pain free. I sent him all my MRIs and reports. I am waiting to hear back from him. I have plateaued in my recovery process. I see a Chrio and MT. My Chrio said it does work because they can spend so much time on you.

fdupshoulders 05-05-2013 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Msudawg89 (Post 980766)
I talked to him and out of town patients stay foe 4 or 5 days. He treats you for about 16 hours a day. He says you are done when you are pain free. I sent him all my MRIs and reports. I am waiting to hear back from him. I have plateaued in my recovery process. I see a Chrio and MT. My Chrio said it does work because they can spend so much time on you.
And what if you don't become pain free? Then you don't have to pay?


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