Thoracic Outlet Syndrome Thoracic Outlet Syndrome/Brachial Plexopathy. In Memory Of DeAnne Marie.


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Old 08-04-2015, 09:44 AM #11
jzp119 jzp119 is offline
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I don't think it claims that it is a cure.
I see it a way to control bad flare-ups and as a start of a progression to other exercises which will actually correct the underlying problems (like bad posture or scapular instability).
Okay. Thanks so much
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Old 08-05-2015, 05:47 PM #12
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Hiker, I like this idea of posting regular progress updates, it is very useful! I am going to try and do something similar myself.

Btw, I followed the Edgelow protocol and some modification of it with Steve for quite a while last year. Good to hear a story similar to mine. Thanks to Steve (he's the most honest, straightforward PT I've met so far!), I was able to get rid of my immediate nagging pain and felt significantly better.

After a while, though, I felt that the full solution was in a more comprehensive posture correction, so I started to see the Egoscue folks. For example, I noticed that apart from problems with my right arm, shoulder, scapula, I also had pain in my right hip, right knee and foot. I was not and am not yet sure if these are cause or effect but it felt like addressing all of them together might yield more progress.

All the best and let me know if you have any questions.
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Akash (08-06-2015)
Old 08-05-2015, 08:14 PM #13
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Have you figured out the solution to your leg/foot problem yet?
A few months ago I noticed some on and off numbness in my feet and then some on and off pain in the hip area (on both sides).
There are some L5-S1 disk/vertebrae issues showing on my MRI which may be a direct cause of this, but I suppose the root of all problems is in the overall faulty posture.
Most exercises for the lower spine I tried seem to make the problem worse so I'm not sure how to proceed.

I am progressing to more strenuous workouts for the upper body and these work very well. I regained much of the arm and shoulder strength I lost and stopped dropping things. Scapular stabilization still needs a lot more work though.
I am curious what Egoscue exercises you find helpful.
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Old 08-06-2015, 09:03 AM #14
Akash Akash is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DufusMaximus View Post
Hiker, I like this idea of posting regular progress updates, it is very useful! I am going to try and do something similar myself.

Btw, I followed the Edgelow protocol and some modification of it with Steve for quite a while last year. Good to hear a story similar to mine. Thanks to Steve (he's the most honest, straightforward PT I've met so far!), I was able to get rid of my immediate nagging pain and felt significantly better.

After a while, though, I felt that the full solution was in a more comprehensive posture correction, so I started to see the Egoscue folks. For example, I noticed that apart from problems with my right arm, shoulder, scapula, I also had pain in my right hip, right knee and foot. I was not and am not yet sure if these are cause or effect but it felt like addressing all of them together might yield more progress.

All the best and let me know if you have any questions.
Who's Steve and would you have any contact information for him? Is he based out of California.
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Old 08-06-2015, 09:04 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiker View Post
Have you figured out the solution to your leg/foot problem yet?
A few months ago I noticed some on and off numbness in my feet and then some on and off pain in the hip area (on both sides).
There are some L5-S1 disk/vertebrae issues showing on my MRI which may be a direct cause of this, but I suppose the root of all problems is in the overall faulty posture.
Most exercises for the lower spine I tried seem to make the problem worse so I'm not sure how to proceed.

I am progressing to more strenuous workouts for the upper body and these work very well. I regained much of the arm and shoulder strength I lost and stopped dropping things. Scapular stabilization still needs a lot more work though.
I am curious what Egoscue exercises you find helpful.
Hiker, did the Edgelow exercises address the upper trap/back pain spasms you mentioned (correct me if I am wrong) which you said were an issue earlier?

PS: Thanks a ton for the regular updates you provide. They offer a lot of hope for all those of us hitting walls in trying to figure out how to address this TOS stuff.

Last edited by Akash; 08-06-2015 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:08 AM #16
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Yes, I think Edgelow exercises helped with the trap issues (bad pain above the shoulder blade). I think the nerves were being compressed in the neck and neck relaxation exercises reduced the compression.

PS Steve Talajkowski is the PT in California who is based in the old Peter Edgelow's office in Hayward.
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Old 08-06-2015, 12:41 PM #17
DufusMaximus DufusMaximus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiker View Post
Have you figured out the solution to your leg/foot problem yet?
A few months ago I noticed some on and off numbness in my feet and then some on and off pain in the hip area (on both sides).
There are some L5-S1 disk/vertebrae issues showing on my MRI which may be a direct cause of this, but I suppose the root of all problems is in the overall faulty posture.
Most exercises for the lower spine I tried seem to make the problem worse so I'm not sure how to proceed.

I am progressing to more strenuous workouts for the upper body and these work very well. I regained much of the arm and shoulder strength I lost and stopped dropping things. Scapular stabilization still needs a lot more work though.
I am curious what Egoscue exercises you find helpful.

@Hiker, I have a similar theory - the problem is the overall structure/posture instead of a clinical fix in the neck/shoulder area. The clinical fixes in the local area of the pain do provide relief but each time I go back to doing significant work at the computer or sit for a long time, the symptoms reappear. There's a bunch of people (Egoscue, Esther Gokhale, others) who point out problems in the spine arch (http://www.healthandlovepage.com/wp-...-Back-Pain.jpg) as a possible root cause. I am still not 100% convinced about the cause and effect cycle here (did shoulder issues cause back pain or did consistent lower back issues cause shoulder instability?) but my current theory is that everything needs to be addressed.

In my case, I could see that despite doing shoulder opening exercises, the weight of my body was more on the front face than on my heels, butt etc. After I started doing the exercises that the Egoscue folks recommended, I can clearly see the distribution shifting to the back, albeit slowly and steadily. With this change, I seem to be able to slouch less and maintain an open shoulder pose for longer. However, I need at least 3 more months before I conclude that this is a successful direction (after 3 months of doing their exercises so far).

If you want to try to address your lower back and see if it helps, I have some suggestions.

1. Try to do something like http://www.oregonexercisetherapy.com/blog/static-back for 15 mins with good diaphragm breathing and check if you feel straighter/better right after.

2. Do the (relatively simple) exercises in Egoscue "Pain Free at your PC" chapter "For those in pain" and see if you feel better/straighter right afterwards. This is what I started with, which convinced me to pay a visit to their clinic.

3. Egoscue has a clinic in SF, Esther Gokhale has one in Palo Alto. There are many others who do overall posture correction, but these are the ones I know enough about. I believe both offer an initial consultation for just evaluating and suggesting exercises to start with.

4. Han Yoga in the Bay Area offers a low intensity therapeutic yoga class that might help. Pain in my hands/shoulder did not allow me to do this a few months ago but I can manage to do this regularly now.

Let me know if you need any more details, all the best.
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:00 PM #18
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Thanks for the pointers Dufus!
I tried exercises from Gokhale's book and did not like them much. I think she is making assumptions about what's wrong with the posture which may or may not be correct.
Most her exercises seem to be aimed at fixing posterior pelvis tilt, but mine is overly tilted anteriorly leading to a kyphotic-lordotic posture.
I'll definitely check out the Egoscue book.

Yoga is also an interesing idea. Like you, I was unable to do any Yoga due to arm/shoulder pain, but I think I should be able to do some of it now.
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:23 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiker View Post
Thanks for the pointers Dufus!
I tried exercises from Gokhale's book and did not like them much. I think she is making assumptions about what's wrong with the posture which may or may not be correct.
Most her exercises seem to be aimed at fixing posterior pelvis tilt, but mine is overly tilted anteriorly leading to a kyphotic-lordotic posture.
I'll definitely check out the Egoscue book.

Yoga is also an interesing idea. Like you, I was unable to do any Yoga due to arm/shoulder pain, but I think I should be able to do some of it now.
Hiker, it could be cause and effect mixed up. From what (little) I know, a forward head ends up often causing a kyphotic lordotic posture as a balance mechanism. I have a KL posture with FH too and efforts to fix it went nowhere because I ended up developing a disc issue in my lower back. What help it are lower back extensions. So..

Ideal posture is a slight anterior tilt (not full on) per all the PTs and a decent lordosis with some kyphosis (flat thoracic spine means the scapula wing).

Gokhales book - I completely agree with you, are for the general population much and may not apply across the board. I did like her stretch lying stuff though. I wasn't quite able to implement it, but I do take care now not to flex my spine when sleeping.

We all seem to have picked up our own specific issues along the way.
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Old 08-07-2015, 07:22 PM #20
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Right, I am not really sure about cause and effect here
According to some books I read, tight hip flexors can lead to the forward head posture. But it could be the other way.
Makes sense to try and address the faulty posture on multiple fronts.
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